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Sex Sells, Comics Do Not

Filed Under Philippine Comics | 152 Comments

Because I didn’t want to break a promise, I was at the Mall of Asia briefly yesterday to meet with someone. I took the chance on this rare trip to Manila to get a few stuff, including Secret Invasion (which I didn’t get because it was sold out), and the first issue of the local Playboy mag. I didn’t see a copy anywhere, but I did get this Playhouse Magazine, which is currently on issue #2. Did they come out with this similar sounding magazine because they knew Playboy was coming out as well, and released theirs one month ahead of Playboy? Who knows? It worked in my case. If they planned to cash in on Playboy, they succeeded.

As I was browsing through the magazine, I was impressed by the good production values. It has good glossy paper, good printing, a graphic designer who seems to know what he or she is doing. An all around great package. At P150, it’s not so bad. I might even get the next issue.

Why am I even talking about this on this blog, a blog about comics? This sex magazine has a rather significant and fundamental connection to comics which startled me when I realized it. It’s being published by Atlas Publishing Company, the publisher which was, for many years, the biggest publisher of comics in the Philippines. They are the company which carried the torch of Pilipino Komiks, Tagalog Klasiks, Hiwaga Komiks, and Espesyal Komiks, titles originated by Ace Publications in the late 40’s and early 50’s, which died under the tutelage of Atlas during the early 2000’s.

In the Komiks Congress held in 2007 at Intramuros, the general manager of Atlas Publications, Deo C. Alvarez, publicly apologized for the death of these venerable komiks under his watch. He gave several reasons for this, which I will quote here:

1. ALL OUT WAR ON MNLF IN MINDANAO.
Sales and gross profit have declined 30% during the all out war against the insurgents called Muslim National Liberation Front in the Mindanao region.
2. THE MOUNT PINATUBO VOLCANIC ERUPTION.
Sales and Gross Profit declined a further 30%.
3. UNCONTROLLABLE INCREASE ON PAPER COST.
4. TV CONSUMPTION AND OTHER NEW ESCAPIST MEDIUM.
5. DECLINE ON KOMIKS READING.

Note that all the reasons that were given all pointed to reasons outside of comics. It seems to imply that no matter how good the quality of the comics themselves, they will still fail.

Note also that the reasons given can be applicable to other publications as well. With the exception of reason #5, these reasons can also be applied to magazines, newspapers, books, or any other publication for that matter.

A lot has changed since last year because these reasons didn’t stop Atlas from coming out with an expensive full color and glossy girly magazine. Certainly not inexpensive to mass produce and distribute nationwide.

So what has changed? Is the all out war in Mindanao no longer affecting sales? Is the Mount Pinatubo Volcanic Eruption no longer affecting sales? Is the uncontrollable increase of paper cost no longer stopping them from publishing? Is TV consumption and other new escapist medium no longer considered significant enough to prevent publishing a magazine?

So why not publish comics then? Recent efforts by Rising Star, ABS-CBN and Sterling seems to refute reason 5: “Decline of Komiks reading” rather soundly. There is no decline in komiks reading when komiks are available.

Why has Atlas, long time publisher of comics, decide to put their eggs in the sex basket instead of the comics basket? Why has this long time torch bearer and vanguard of Philippine comics not invest the same kind of capital and production values to comics?

Because sex sells? Because that is a wiser business decision? Comics is not worth the risk?

If you are a comic publisher for decades, shouldn’t be your “reason for being” be publishing comics?

What business model was Tony Velasquez, creator of Pilipino Komiks in 1947, following that convinced him comics would be a wise business decision? Halakhak Komiks, the title that was published earlier which crashed and burned after 10 issues? There was no one else doing comics books at the time in the Philippines. And the only company that attempted it a year before failed. It made absolutely no business sense to publish comics then. But why did he?

Because he took the risk? Because he thought comics was worth it?

If we applied the same thinking today in 1947, we will never have comic books, and Atlas Publication won’t even exist. I’ll probably be an architect constructing a high rise in Makati.

I think it boils back down to the perception we have of comics. We all love comics, I know it. But our perception of what comics is, and what comics should be, is the one preventing us from investing in, and creating GOOD comics.

It’s that perception that comics should be cheap, that it should appeal to what we perceive to be the taste of the masses, that it deserves cheap production values on cheap paper. Comics deserve more than that. The Filipino people deserve more than that. We want good, well produced comics. Why the stubborn insistence on making comics cheap when literally everything else is becoming expensive? If we project the cost of comics in the old days to today, considering inflation, you’ll probably be surprised to realize that comics in the old days weren’t cheap at all.

Rising Star has ALREADY proven that a P100 mass market Tagalog comics distributed nationwide WILL SELL. But Atlas pretty much put a monkey wrench in that plan by issuing a cease and desist order on Rising Star to stop publishing their “Filipino Komiks” for DARING to publish as similar sounding publication to their own. Playboy and Playhouse for example.

There have been many recent publishers that have respected comics enough to elevate the quality of the package and content. There’s Nautilus, Kestrel, Sacred Mountain, PSI-COM, Mango, Culture Crash, etc., but it’s not enough. We need the more mainstream publishers to do the same…to respect comics as much as a lot of independent Filipino creators and publishers are already doing. Kudos to ABS-CBN for doing in this direction which began in the Buzz Magasin, and will go hardcore with Sindak!

I sincerely hope Atlas would take the plunge and re-start Pilipino Komiks, Hiwaga, Tagalog Klasiks and Espesyal, in much better formats. In spite of my criticisms, I have great respect for Atlas as an institution, because it was the bedrock of Philippine comics for many decades. I felt very sad when they closed down the comics. The anger I feel is frustration more than anything else. Frustrated that they decided to invest in sex rather than the reason they are here in the first place, and that is comics.

I really hope to see those great titles again, and if they’re willing, I’ll gladly help by contributing. And that’s a promise I’m willing to make.

Comments

152 Responses to “Sex Sells, Comics Do Not”

adam! on April 7th, 2008 1:19 pm

Because sex sells? Because that is a wiser business decision?

ito lang naman ata talaga ang rason. i mean, sex bridges a lot of age gaps and interests and genders (more or less), more so than comic books.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 7th, 2008 1:49 pm

Kung sabagay bumili nga ako e.

But still… they are a comic book publisher. If the product doesn’t work, they have to study and analyze what went wrong and create better comics, instead of ditching their raison d’être altogether and publish another product because it’s supposed to sell better.

The sad fact is, the company that was once the greatest and biggest comics publisher in the Philippines no longer has faith in comics. It has much more faith in sex. And that’s tragic.
adam! on April 7th, 2008 2:16 pm

ewan ko nga. ako mismo ay nakahanap ng paraan para makagawa ng maayusayos na komiks na okey-okey naman nang ako lang (haha, yabang). mamamatay lang nga ako sa marketing nito, eventually, but still, hindi siya imposible kung gusto mo talagang gawan ng paraan.
Robby Villabona on April 7th, 2008 2:17 pm

“There is no decline in komiks reading when komiks are available.”

“Rising Star has ALREADY proven that a P100 mass market Tagalog comics distributed nationwide WILL SELL. ”

I find these statements very, very hard to believe. I think your feet aren’t on the ground on this one. Even in once invincible Japan, the trend is clear — less people are reading manga every year in favor of electronic entertainment. Why do we have this READ OR DIE events in the first place? Because reading has declined in general and komiks was one of the earliest victims of this trend. In this particular instance, I do not believe that if you build it they will come.

People will always have this debate as to what caused the decline in komiks reading. Was it the publishers who continued making komiks people didn’t want to read? Or was it the readers who started watching cable TV and using cell phones?

The debate is moot, because it’s probably the case that it is much harder to get back the readers you’ve lost, than it is to maintain those whose attention you still have. People don’t set aside their money waiting for good comics to come back. They’ve already found other things to spend their money on, and you will not get them back simply by making the best possible comics available at the best possible price. A generation is already growing not having known Pinoy komiks and I will bet you will not get this generation to stop watching cable TV and DVDs, surfing the Internet, blogging, and playing with the cell phones to buy komiks.

Exactly how many issues of Rising Star’s Filipino Komiks were printed and sold that it’s used as an example of how there’s a mass market for komiks priced at P100? I think you can only make that conclusion if it were published on a sustained basis (at least 3 years), at a good enough circulation, with contributors paid well, and the publisher making a profit. Sorry but in this specific case, I believe much more in the P10-P15 komiks theory. It’s just the current execution I have problems with.
Ed on April 7th, 2008 2:25 pm

I don’t get it. Limited readers pag about SEX ang ipa-publish di ba?

Sa comics LAHAT pwede, unless adult or for mature readers lang ang comics.

Oh, about the tile…parang mix of Playboy and Penthouse mags. :P
Gerry Alanguilan on April 7th, 2008 2:59 pm

Robby, you and I believe in radically different things, that much is obvious right from the start. :) Ok, the comment “There is no decline in comics if comics are available.” is perhaps worded incorrectly. My intention with that is to say that if comics are available, people will buy it and read it. Perhaps not in the numbers we once had, but people will read it. As Rising Star and Sterling will tell you.

I do believe in “If you build it, they will come.” It’s not even a matter of belief. I’ve proven it to myself, and I’ve seen it happen many times for it to be untrue. For me, it’s a matter of fact, not belief. It’s tantamount to disagreeing that sun is hot, as far as I’m concerned. If this is something that you haven’t encountered in your experience, thus your disbelief, then that’s fine. Agree to disagree and all that.

There are many things that we can debate to death and get nowhere, you know? I know what you’re saying and I understand it. But it’s debatable, and if we pursue it, it would detract from why I posted this in the first place.

The basic point of my post is not about numbers, or of recapturing a once gigantic audience. It’s not about other media taking the attention and money away from comics. The same numbers comics once had is no longer there. That’s something we can all agree on.

This post is about Atlas choosing to sell a sex magazine as opposed to comics.

Nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is surprising. Publishing anything at all is in direct contradiction to the reasons they gave for stopping the publication of comics in the first place, don’t you think?

If non traditional comic book publishers have the nerve enough to risk money in comics, like Rising Star, ABS CBN and Sterling, why can’t they, when comics was the reason for their existence?

If all their reasons for stopping the publication of comics is no longer there, that they can now afford to publish a sex magazine, why not comics?

My conclusion is that Atlas no longer has faith in comics. It has more faith in sex. And for once being our biggest and greatest comics publisher, I think it’s tragic. That’s what I think. That is the point of my post.

And yeah, I have no problem having my feet way up in the air. If I stay on the ground, I’ll get nowhere.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 7th, 2008 4:03 pm

By the way, I do have to admit that I base my belief in the success of Rising Star’s Filipino Komiks #1 solely on the word of the editor, who assured me that the comic book was a “success”. How that is measured, be it numbers, or profit, he would know. And I’m told that the title would have continued if not for the unfortunate Atlas order.

Please don’t take my word for it, but between the three of us, I’d take the word of someone who was actually behind the scenes.
Robby Villabona on April 7th, 2008 4:43 pm

“I do believe in “If you build it, they will come.” It’s not even a matter of belief. I’ve proven it to myself, and I’ve seen it happen many times for it to be untrue. For me, it’s a matter of fact, not belief. It’s tantamount to disagreeing that sun is hot, as far as I’m concerned. If this is something that you haven’t seen in your experience, then that’s fine.”

I’d like to hear more about this. First, what exactly is it that you’ve proven to yourself? And second, how did you prove it to yourself? This is a serious inquiry, not meant to be sarcastic in any way.

I’ll tell you where I’m coming from so you know where I’d like to be shown I’m wrong. My impression is that most independent publishing efforts are subsidized (either by selling other assets, working overtime, and taking on other jobs to pay the bills). If taken by themselves, these indie publishing efforts are not self-sustaining. I’d like to hear it if you can tell me your experience (and others, such as Gilbert Monsanto) is otherwise.
Robby Villabona on April 7th, 2008 5:11 pm

You do realize that a “successful” comic magazine that didn’t even get to issue #2 as planned is an oxymoron. Maybe success here meant that the effort broke even… but not enough to get the publisher interested in financing a second issue. That’s hardly an example of “success” to cite if you’re out to convince people there’s money in comics, never mind P100 newsprint comics.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 7th, 2008 5:13 pm

Look Robby, it would be embarrassing for me to answer this question. It would make me uncomfortable, really. I really don’t like tooting my own horn in that way.

But I hope it would suffice to say that in creating comics my own way, it was both profitable for me, not only financially but in other more important ways. If you want a nuts and bolts breakdown exactly what I mean, I have to apologize and say I’m incapable of doing it.

However, I re-read your post and saw the “In this particular case…”. Sorry, it didn’t register when I first read it, leading me to conclude that you don’t believe that “If you build it, they will come.” in ALL cases, not just comics.

When I responded, I was thinking of things and examples outside of comics.

So, “In This Particular Case”… you don’t believe that if people made comics, people will come. Fair enough. It’s just a matter of measuring what we consider to be successful.

Selling out a 1000 copy print run of an untested comic book, employing a ridiculous idea, using an art style that isn’t considered popular may seem piddling to some, but could also be considered a success by others. But as far as that particular untested comic book is concerned, I think enough people have come. And people are STILL coming. The profits from this comic book by no means pays ALL the bills. But as a single entity, it has made much more money than it cost. Regardless of how we measure success, this comic book was made, and people came and bought it. All of it. And a lot of people are still asking for more. A reprint is perhaps in the offing.
auggie on April 7th, 2008 5:22 pm

Rob,

Palagay ko publishers of this new skin magazine are in for a RUDE AWAKENING. Marami ng nauna, FHM & company. Sana madagdagan pa, HUSTLER (Pinoy Edition), o kaya , i-revive yung GINOO, para mas marami. Supposedly pang sophisticated audience ang genre na ito, di ba ? I’m just curious kung gaano ka sophisticated din ang nag co-composed ng editorial staff . Could you name a few ?

And all the while, di ba National Book Store ang parent company nito ? supposedly CLEAN WHOLESOME FUN lang ang nilalabas ?
Gerry Alanguilan on April 7th, 2008 5:23 pm

Robby, you did read the reasons why Filipino Komiks only lasted one issue, did you? I said it often not only in this post, but also in the past.
adam! on April 7th, 2008 6:29 pm

I’m just curious kung gaano ka sophisticated din ang nag co-composed ng editorial staff . Could you name a few ?

ang alam ko, sa pinoy na PLAYBOY, kasama sa editorial si Krip Yuson, na in most circles ay respectable at lahat. bago binigay kay Krip, dapat kay Butch Dalisay yun, na ganun rin, respectable in most circles.

pero kasi PLAYBOY yun, na paliterary naman talaga (kaya mas gusto ko PENTHOUSE dati).
gilbert monsanto on April 7th, 2008 6:45 pm

Robby, Magkaiba talaga ang success story ng isang self-publishing sa isang BIG publishing company. Una na sa lahat ay ang resources? Nasa kanila na ang lahat, distribution hanggang sa haba ng pisi. Samantalang ang self-publisher, pati paglalagay ng copies nila sa plastic ay iisang tao rin, ako yun hahaha. Pero ito lang ang masasabi ko, kung may pera ako tulad ng Atlas at Summit, ilalagay ko pa rin sa komiks. If I have all the resourced they have? I think kahit ano ilabas ko, mabibili. In fact, may mga kwento rin na kailangan pa mismong ligawan ang ilang store managers (bribe na kung bribe para lang mailagay sa harap ang titles nila ) imagine that? Wala akong perang ganun. Kaya talaga namang ipagtataka mo kung bakit hindi komiks. Isa ang dahilan ang nakikita ko diyan. Mas pahirap na ng pahirap makahanap ng writer/creator na magpapauto na lang sa lahat ng gusto ng publishers. I’d say that is a good thing. Dahil ang maglalabas na lang ay ang mga serious sa comics at magbibigay ng tamang terms sa creators nito.

Ang mahirap lang, sa sex magazine, di sinisilip. Pag komiks yan, raid ang aabutin mo. Fair ba iyon? Maglabas tayo ng erotika just to prove a point siguro, pero malamang ubos yan hehe.

In the end, mas gusto ko ang mabigo na lumalaban kesa sa mamatay na lang na nagiisip, ano nga kaya kung ginawa ko yun noon?

Kahit ano ang sabihin mo, I gain from all of this ventures.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 7th, 2008 6:49 pm

Yeah, mas gusto ko Penthouse noong araw. Masdayo kasing sterile at boring ang Playboy, while Hustler was too vulgar. Penthouse tamang tama lang.

As for Playhouse, editor in chief nya is Zak Zorro Zamora, Managing Editor is Box Batungbakal III and contributing writers include Vicente Garcia-Groyon, Jimbo Gulle, Emee Lawagan, Aidan Garcia, Joanne Fajardo, Mel Enriquez, Bernice Biong, Liam Rodriquez, Eugene Moskaira and Marco Antonio Luna.

This issue includes an interview with Peque Gallaga and a feature about “Scorpio Nights”. Plus a rather substantial article on Flash Elorde.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 7th, 2008 6:52 pm

I love you, Gilbert. Naiyak naman ako sa post mo. Congrats ulit sa feature mo sa Inquirer. :D
Eusebio Yu on April 7th, 2008 7:49 pm

And the never ending debate goes on….Robby has a point, Gerry. Rising Star’s one issue comic could not be considered a success. People- at least those that read comics- will always be more inclined to buy first issues. Ok, so they were threatened with a lawsuit if they continue using ‘Filipino Comics’. Big freaking deal. Change the name and continue. I might be a bit simplistic, but all I hear is excuses. True, Sterling ,ABS-CBN ( what comics do they publish anyway? ) etc tried to publish a few. But seriously, are these comics that we can be proud of? The intention is good, the creators do their best, but face it, the product is substandard. I know you try to project the good qualities of these comics, Gerry, but the fact is there isn’t much. I quit CJC komiks around the 3rd or 4th issue. Newspapers use better quality paper than these. Never mind the content…..
adam! on April 7th, 2008 8:00 pm

Dahil ang maglalabas na lang ay ang mga serious sa comics at magbibigay ng tamang terms sa creators nito.

in fairness to some publishers na maayos naman ang trato sa creators, minsan yung creators rin naman ang hindi nakakapagdeliver. huwag ring kalimutang two-way street ang transaction na ito.

Maglabas tayo ng erotika just to prove a point siguro, pero malamang ubos yan hehe.

actually, ako, me mga plano… me mga papatol ba sa inyo?
Jose Mari Lee on April 7th, 2008 9:35 pm

Gilbert Monsanto:
Gawa ka nga ng erotikang komiks at ang kitain mo dito ay i=finance mo sa iyong mainstream komiks. Kung ang mga sex magazines ay approved na ngaayon, dapat sex komiks ay okay na rin.

Robby:
I don’t know if it is an indication of anything, but when FILIPINO KOMIKS #1 came out here, they were all sold out. Natalo nito ang benta ng THE BUZZ.

Could this be a sign that readers are looking for komiks but not the kind that the old industry used to publish?

I guess one example can’t really result in a comprehensive study, but I do believe Risingstar’s Filipino Komiks did very well in RP and here in north America, despite its cover price of (if memory serves me right) $8.99.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 7th, 2008 9:55 pm

“True, Sterling ,ABS-CBN ( what comics do they publish anyway? ) etc tried to publish a few. But seriously, are these comics that we can be proud of? The intention is good, the creators do their best, but face it, the product is substandard.”

Hey Eusebio… I’m quoting this, not really meaning to respond, but to just demonstrate to Robby what I was talking about…. how a discussion can quickly get out of hand when a minor point in the original post gets blown up, and now we’re not even talking about what the main point of this post is all about…and that is Atlas publishing a sex magazine instead of comics.

Whether Rising Star’s Filipino Komiks #1 is a success is debatable, but it’s not the point.

Whether the quality of CJC’s comics is good or bad is a matter of opinion (it’s not so good), but that’s not the point.

I’m talking about a tragedy here that’s much deeper than what we’re all talking about in this comments section… that of Atlas, once the greatest of all comic book publishers in the Philippines, no longer having the faith to publish comics, choosing to publish a sex magazine instead. This has deep rooted significance in how comics is perceived in this country, and it’s something that has to be faced, studied, and analyzed if we are ever going to revive the comics industry in any proper way.

Oh yeah, I’m working as a comic book artist for ABS-CBN. They publish The Buzz Magasin, as well as Sindak!

And yes, Rising Star did continue to publish comics with their LUPIN series.
gilbert monsanto on April 7th, 2008 10:26 pm

ADAM: Lilinawin ko lang na wala akong pinapatamaan na publisher, dahil di naman tatamaan ang di ganun na publisher di ba?

SIR JML: Sex komiks? SACRED MOUNTAIN gagawa? Di yata babagay sa pangalan namin hehe. Pero di pa rin pwede sa ngayon ang sex komiks, dahil labag pa rin sa batas ang Porno. Huhulihin kami. Sabihin na lang natin na may double standard talaga. Mas naniniwala pa rin ako na kung kaya kong gumawa ng di short cut, gagawin ko ito. Idealistic fool lang talaga ako hehe.

Gerry: Tungkol naman sa faith ng Atlas sa komiks, well sabihin na lang natin na pagnasugatan ka, di ito agad maghihilom :)
Robby Villabona on April 7th, 2008 11:26 pm

“Robby, you did read the reasons why Filipino Komiks only lasted one issue, did you? I said it often not only in this post, but also in the past.”

Of course, KC’s in the best position to answer this, but I never even considered that the conflict with ATLAS over the title was a reason to stop. Diba pwede naman magpalit ng title? If it was so successful then all they needed to do was change the title and continue publishing.

Gerry:
Until we have at least even a common (even if loose) definition of success, then we’re both wasting virtual saliva. What you consider successful may not be what big publishers consider as good evidence of a latent demand by a mass market for komiks. Even the ABS-CBN forays are hardly examples. First, they’re not really komiks. Second, the one closest to what komiks are hasn’t even come out yet. They’re only examples of experiments, not successful examples that there’s money to be made in komiks, and that’s what publishers are looking for.

Gilbert:
We all have our own definitions of success — be it psychic income or real hard cash. But the topic being why Atlas prefers printing men’s magazines than komiks, then I think it’s financial viability that needs to be demonstrated. So far the only valid example I see is Sterling’s effort, assuming it’s actually making money.

JM:
How do you define “natalo” ang benta ng THE BUZZ? You mean to tell me it sold more? Or did it just sell out? Maybe FK#1 sold out 500 out of 500 issues, versus in Canada, 9,500 out of 10,000 issues for THE BUZZ. If that’s the case, then I don’t think “natalo” ang THE BUZZ.

I’m really wary of using anecdotes to demonstrate the ’success’ or failure of komiks endeavours. For example, from the point of view of Pasig Palengke, CJC komiks are successful, because they’re always sold out. But from the point of view of the more upscale EDSA Central Market, CJC komiks constantly remain piled up unsold under DIVIDENDAZO. To settle the question, what you need is the total.

I remain unconvinced until I see real numbers — as in number of copies sold, and actual profits made from the whole project. Nothing convinces an investor more than actual figures… vague evidence such as “sold out”, and “no. of reprints” are not good evidence.
Robby Villabona on April 7th, 2008 11:50 pm

Auggie, I don’t have any idea who’s behind most of the new men’s magazines. Yung PLAYHOUSE I’ve been seeing that since January I think.

Ang alam ko lang, mas mabenta talaga yung sexy kaysa sa hubad. Kasi hindi nahihiya bilhin ito ng mga kalalakihan, at pati ng mga kababaihan (where was it mentioned that 40% of FHM buyers are women?). Besides, if you wanted hubad, sa Internet ang punta mo.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 7:53 am

“Until we have at least even a common (even if loose) definition of success, then we’re both wasting virtual saliva. What you consider successful may not be what big publishers consider as good evidence of a latent demand by a mass market for komiks.”

Robby… we were talking about “If you build it, they come.” What exactly do you think of when you read it? Apparently you expect a lot from the quote, that something has to be this huge commercial success for it to be a quote that’s believable for you.

Me, I’m thinking if someone makes a batch of turon and hawks it in front of his house and it gets sold out in an hour, that pretty much fulfills the quote. He cooked it, and people ate it. As far as that day is concerned, his endeavor is a success. That’s as simple as what I’m talking about.

Does he have to establish a huge turon company with 50 branches across the country earning him an income that lets him house and feed his family an educate his children and pay for all their medical bills for the quote to be viable enough for you?
Jose Mari Lee on April 8th, 2008 9:11 am

Honestly, I didn’t know how many copies of Filipino komiks were exported in north America. But basing on what I have seen in Filipino stores, the komiks were all sold out while Ssome copies of the Buzz were still on the shelves. In some instances, I was present when some shoppers saw the komiks and the reaction was: “ay, komiks! Ang tagal nang wala nito. Bili tayo.”

Surprisingly, the buyers were in their 30s and 40s. Walang 60s. I tend to believe that the 30s and 40s are the remaining audience of the komiks. Yung the Buzz naman kasi ay mga showbiz chismis, di ba? Priced the same, Filipino komiks was only B&W while the Buzz is glossy and full-color. Ang ilang issues ay may bonus sa The Buzz, as in, yung hindi naubos ay isinama sa bagong issue for the same $8.99 price. Pero mas naubos pa rin ang Filipino komiks. Ingkong KC told me that Risingstar DID NOT export Filipino Komiks. Therefore, someone who’s enterprising must have bought many copies and sold them allover Canada and the US. And because of this, we may not find out the real score. However, the fact that they were all sold out, it still says something: there is an audience of RP komiks out there.

Unfortunately, Sterling doesn’t seem to take advantage of this fact.

I haven’t seen any copies of Sterling komiks here. Not yet, anyway.
Auggie on April 8th, 2008 9:25 am

Well, certainly, Butch Dalisay and Krip Yuson, have both GRAVITAS. I still remember Krip’s extremely esoteric magazine, ERMITA, which had awesome graphics, from the best artists of Manila, but unfortunately, it didn’t last… however, the editorial staff of this PLAYHOUSE, doesn’t ring a bell to me , mga bago seguro…

I still do not understand, why these skin magazines continue to titillate the male(female)market.Once you have seen one you have seen all. Ano ba ang bago sa female anatomy ?
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 9:28 am

“What you consider successful may not be what big publishers consider as good evidence of a latent demand by a mass market for komiks”

And I’m curious…. where would the evidence come from if no one takes the risk?

If Tony Velasquez waited for evidence back in 1947 that comics in the Philippines would sell, where would we be? He had no successful business model to quide him. In fact, the only other Philippine business model for comics was a huge failure. He was taking a risk. It was most likely an irrational decision… and people might even considered his idea of Philippine comic books a pipe dream.

But you know, a lot of great things in this world came to be because of irrational pipe-dreamers.

If big comics is to succeed in this country, someone has to take the risk, like Tony Velasquez did in 1947. And Atlas has proven that it won’t.

What a world it would be without the dreamers and irrational risk takers. We’ll all be forever shackled and limited by what other have already done. No innovations, nothing new will ever come except those things that have already been “proven” to work.
gilbert monsanto on April 8th, 2008 9:38 am

Robby: Naririnig ko rin na malaki pa rin ang pasok ng pera sa Sterling komiks, at yun din ang sinabi ko di ba? Kasi nasa kanila ang resources, di talaga ma cocompare sa akin o sa lahat ng self-published books. Ngayon, sinabi ko rin na ayaw lang talaga ng Atlas magventure sa komiks, dahil nasugatan na ito. Simple di ba? Kung pmapayag ka na kumikita ang sterling bakit ayaw mo pumayag na option lang talaga ng Atlas na di gamitin ang resources sa komiks at ginagawa lang nila ang PLAYHOUSE dahil USO ito? at di dahil walang kita sa komiks?
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 9:46 am

Gilbert, kung ang dahilan ng Atlas ay “nasugatan” sila kaya hindi na sila gumagawa ng komiks, siguro desisyon na nga nila yun.

Pero ikaw, ako, ilang beses tayo nasugatan dito sa industriya na ito, pero kumakayod pa rin tayo? Pag nadapa, tumayo, at pag tayo ay nakatayo, mas marunong at mas malakas tayo dahil sa ating naranasan.

Kasama talaga sa negosyo ang mga bagay na ganyan. Tatamaan ka, kikita ka. Kasama yan sa gulong ng negosyo.

Sa tingin ko pag ikaw nasugatan ka, aaray ka pero gagamitin mo lang yun para lalong magpursigi.
gilbert monsanto on April 8th, 2008 9:49 am

ARAYYYY KOMIKS na lang kaya gawin natin hihihi
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 9:54 am

Gilbert, actually, binabalak ko mag artista na lang. he.he.
Reno on April 8th, 2008 10:45 am

Medyo nakaaaliw lang isipin na noong araw nakabalandra sa lahat ng cover ng Atlas ang mga katagang “HINDI PORNO.” :P

Personally, I find the covers of Playhouse offensive. Hindi naman ako santo, pero (again, IMO) they’re bordering on bad taste na. lalo na yung isang cover nila na may illo ng centaur woman. I find it a bit sick.

Di ko pa nabubuklat para makita kung substantial yung loob, pero bago ako ma-accuse of knocking the product without even sampling it, I was talking about the covers only and how it has turned me off from purchasing it.
Ed on April 8th, 2008 11:19 am

Magartista na lang tayo! Kontakin na natin si Bitoy at maki-Bubble Gang na lang tayo. Hehehe! :D
Jose Mari Lee on April 8th, 2008 11:24 am

Gerry:

Kaso ang balita ko’y bagsak din daw yata ngayon ang Pelikulang Tagalog.

Magkandidato ka na lang. At least yung boto ng mga nasa PKMB ay IN THE BAG na.

Tapos, habang nasa puwesto ka, MANGURAKOT ka nang husto, pero style KOMIKS. With a twist. Mag-aala-ROBIN HOOD ka kuno by giving the unemployed komikeros with lotsa moolah.

Tapos, bilang Pope ng PKMB, ide-declare kitang SANTOng buhay. How can you beat that. Wala pang gumawa niyan. Kakagatin ito ng mga PRANSES. Alam mo naman ang mga French, anything new, kinababaliwan. Doon tayo sa France magtatayo ng sarili nating VATICAN equivalent. Para lalong mag-click, pakantahin natin si Billy Crawford para mahakot natin ang lahat ng kabataang nababaliw sa kanya ngayon. Si Marby ang taga-kolekta ng mga LIMOS.

Walang itama diyan ang EL SHADDAI, EL PUDAI at EL SHABBU ;-D

Aray komiks. Kung saan na napunta ang discussion. Paging Lennux…
Robby Villabona on April 8th, 2008 12:26 pm

Gerry, what I mean by (borrowed from FIELD OF ANGELS quote) “If you build it, they will come” is I don’t believe you will be able to compete with new forms of entertainment simply by making good comics. Or put another way, you can’t go back to how it was simply by doing even the best that the past comic book publishers were putting out. A lot of people have moved on, and it’s hard to get them back. Which means you can’t go back to the glory days of komiks publishing, but I think we’re already in agreement there. It also means that most likely, the large majority of buyers of indie comics buyers nowadays, just by the very nature of where you can buy them, are those that are looking for comics in the first place, not regular shoppers that just happened to pass by (note I said “indie comics” — I think Sterling’s market includes a good number of passers-by).

I accept that the definition of success is relative. For an indie — “sold out” is probably a very flattering form of success. And so if the said indie keeps printing and selling out, then in his world, the market is good enough (as you pointed out in your turon analogy). Personally, I believe the minimum definition of success is that you can do it profitably enough to keep on doing it, without having to rely on other sources of financing to prop it up (or personal sacrifice of unpaid time). I believe that’s the minimum definition of a viable business.

But my point of contention is not your definition of success (or the presence of a viable market for comics). It is the use of your definition of success to wonder why Atlas isn’t doing what you’re doing. And that’s why I point out, your definition of success may be not good enough to convince Atlas to go back to komiks publication. Perhaps the market which is big enough in size for you, is not big enough for them. In the same manner, selling out turon in a little corner of San Pablo may not be enough to convince San Miguel Corporation to go into it. If there’s any valid example to cite, it’s probably Sterling. But even then it’s too early to tell. The others (your personal experience as an indie publisher, ABS-CBN’s non-komiks, and FK#1) are invalid and unconvincing examples if you’re out to ‘prove’ to a publisher there’s a mass market out there.

Yes, I agree that someone has to start doing it to find the evidence. My only point is, the current evidence is at best, debatable. One can reasonably argue the evidence for mass komiks is gloomy. And so I don’t wonder why Atlas would prefer to print men’s magazines, since the evidence of a market is very clear there.

GILBERT: Sterling’s probably the best example, yes. But when I also say it’s too early, it’s because it’s possible that they still are able to continue because of subsidy elsewhere (in fact, I’ve heard rumors of gov’t seed money — unfounded though). But if Sterling continues to publish komiks after three years, then it’s probably safe to say the whole effort is self-supporting. Ultimately only an insider knows.

Auggie, did you know HIV infection is on the rise — among call center agents? Raging hormones of twenty-somethings, the cold of the night, and risk-taker personalities all holed up in one place. You’d be surprised in how many places my friend (who was HR manager at Sykes) has found employees having sex. There’s your men’s magazine market. I think it’s the unchallenged market share of FHM which is driving the new men’s magazines to come out.
Myke Guisinga on April 8th, 2008 12:37 pm

Wow! Ang haba ng mga re-directed issue, when Gerry was only saying is “WHY ATLAS, START PUBLISHING A SEX MAGAZINE? WHEN THEY STARTED OUT AS A COMICBOOK PUBLISHER.”

Like I want to ask nowadays, saan na napunta ang “PRENSIPYO”, “PALABRA DE HONOR”, at “MARANGAL NA PAG-IMPLUWENSYA SA KABATAAN AT MAMAMAYAN”?

Kung nagawa ng ATLAS na magbigay ng aliw at tamang perception sa pamumuhay at moral ng bawat pinoy noon….bakit hindi na ngayon?

Kung easy money ang sagot. Wla na bang ibang dahilan bukod sa pera?
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 12:41 pm

“It is the use of your definition of success to wonder why Atlas isn’t doing what you’re doing. And that’s why I point out, your definition of success may be not good enough to convince Atlas to go back to komiks publication.”

Yes, and the fact that Atlas Publishing, the largest company publishing comics for decades is now unwilling to publish comics because they think it might not be successful… and chose to publish a girly magazine instead to make money…. is an act of desperation, and a huge tragedy, not only for me, but for the entire komiks industry.

This has been my basic point all along before we got lost in quibbling with minor details.

I keep remembering our local cinema houses here. Once the popular hangout of the locals (even I went to see movies there a lot). But as time went on when the cinema owners became complacent and didn’t maintain or upgrade their facilities, interested in nothing more than to make money… people stopped coming. It smelled bad, the floors are sticky, and showing times were not followed. It just became bad.

In an effort to attract customers, they did nothing to improve their facilities. Instead, they started showing bomba films. They survived for a time, but now they’re closed, their lobbies converted into ukay ukay or NOVO groceries. It’s sad and pathetic.
Jose Mari Lee on April 8th, 2008 12:47 pm

Well, we better alert YOU TUBE.

Caught in the act at THE CALL CENTER.

Baka matalo pa nito ang hit na nakuha nung CEBU prisoners dancing to Jacko’s Thriller.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 12:51 pm

JM! Ha! ha! Game ako dyan. Pero please, pakantahin na natin lahat, wag lang si Billy Crawford. ha! ha!!
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 12:53 pm

“Personally, I find the covers of Playhouse offensive. Hindi naman ako santo, pero (again, IMO) they’re bordering on bad taste na.”

Reno, actually agree ako sayo. Yung bondage feature nila medyo sick para sa akin, lalo na yung ibang pose ng mga babae medyo malaswa. Pero if I can get past it, Ok syang reference. :D
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 12:56 pm

“Auggie, did you know HIV infection is on the rise — among call center agents? Raging hormones of twenty-somethings, the cold of the night, and risk-taker personalities all holed up in one place.”

Robby… wow, talaga? I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but this is a very big deal. Are you sure it’s HIV and not simply STD? San mo nakuha ang iyong info?
adam! on April 8th, 2008 2:19 pm

GILBERT: wala rin naman akong pinatatamaan na creator, e, at ang creator na hindi ganun ay din naman rin dapat tinatamaan.

ang kinukuwento ko ay more sa general sense nung agreement na ganyan, sa paggawa. speaking as someone na nakikihalibilo sa parehong creator at editorial circles, alam ko ang hirap sa parehong gilid ng mesang bilog at hindi rin naman kasi tama na tira lang tayo nang tira sa authority figures (ie, management) kasi hindi laging ganun ang ikot ng mundo.
adam! on April 8th, 2008 2:22 pm

mahirap atang ideny na walang creator na hindi nakakatupad sa agreement na pinapasok. mas kapansin-pansin lang kapag management ang hindi nakakatupad kasi mas yun ang kapansin-pansin.
auggie on April 8th, 2008 3:26 pm

Rob,
Ganoon ba ? well, whether it’s STD or HIV, is beside the point. Scoop ito, maganda yung idea ni JM sa You Tube. And we can also beat those skin magazines at their own game by publishing this sort of erotic investigative journalism. Baka pwede doon sa SINDAK ni KC ? kasindak-sindak eh, akala ng mga magulang safe place ang Call centers sa mga anak nila, yun pala ground zero sa mga STDs at HIVs. Paging KC !
auggie on April 8th, 2008 3:35 pm

Myke,

Palagay ko wala na yung old values na hinahanap mo. Tinatanong ko nga di ba ? National Book Store ang parent company, at supposedly, good , clean wholesome fun lang, di ba ? Very obvious na talagang KWARTA na ang habol… but you cannot fault them for that. Ganyan ang nature ng business, kung saan ang opportunity at need, yun ang i-address mo. In this case, sabi nga ni Robby. Twenty-somethings with raging hormones… eh saan ka pa ?
johnbecaro on April 8th, 2008 4:10 pm

Sadyang nakakalungkot na talaga ang sitwasyon ng ating society at print media. Mas marami ang benta sa mga ganitong babasahin (at ako din madalas bumili). Pero dito natin nasasalamin ang tunay na sitwasyon ng ating kultura.Yung ibang negosyante, sinasabi na ito’y “for art sake”, hindi ako naniniwala, dahil ang end point nito ay “SALES” pa rin Pera. Laganap at sobrang open sa toleration na talaga sa atin ang mga ganito..Haaaayyyy……nakuh.
Anu ang ma ma mind set sa mga next generation natin? puro condom at pre marital sex? tsk tsk tsk
johnbecaro on April 8th, 2008 4:26 pm

“A generation is already growing not having known Pinoy komiks and I will bet you will not get this generation to stop watching cable TV and DVDs, surfing the Internet, blogging, and playing with the cell phones to buy komiks.”

THAT IS A PRESUMPTION. I know some children who knows pinoy komiks in the provinces when I went on vacation. By watching TV, internet, movies, cellphone DOES NOT MEAN they do not have the interest on reading “KOmiks” , THey just DONT HAVE A REGULAR ACCESS.

Lay down your Accurate evidences/basis to support your claim.
Robby Villabona on April 8th, 2008 4:32 pm

“Wow! Ang haba ng mga re-directed issue, when Gerry was only saying is “WHY ATLAS, START PUBLISHING A SEX MAGAZINE? WHEN THEY STARTED OUT AS A COMICBOOK PUBLISHER.” ”

Di ko naman nilalayo yung issue… the post was essentially asking why, in the face of all the present success stories in komiks publishing, and in the face of evidence of a mass market for komiks, did Atlas choose to make men’s magazines instead of komiks?

Ang sagot ko, sales of WASTED, ELMER, TROPA, CULTURE CRASH, NARDONG TAE, FK#1 are not evidence of a latent mass market. Baka yung Sterling pa…
Auggie on April 8th, 2008 4:38 pm

JohnB,

Ano pa karon an pala-abuton ta ? hambal ni Robby, Twenty-somethings with raging hormones, kun baga sa atun,mga juvenes na naga-huro-huro pa, de bala ? mangakig gid si Msgr. Angel Lagdameo eh….
johnbecaro on April 8th, 2008 4:39 pm

“In the end, mas gusto ko ang mabigo na lumalaban kesa sa mamatay na lang na nagiisip, ano nga kaya kung ginawa ko yun noon?”

Nakakainspire po ang katagang ito.Mabuhay po ang lahat na nakikibaka sa kapakanan ng lokal na komiks.
*****bow
Myke Guisinga on April 8th, 2008 4:41 pm

John, musta na? Well, atleast well taught na ang mga next generation sa pag gamit ng condom at safe to say na mag-premarital sex man sila, hindi na magiging over populated ang pinas at hindi na maghihirap si Juan kasi wala ng mamanipulang mamayanang naghihirap.

Auggie:
Mahirap tangapin, pro yun na nga tlga ang sitwasyon sa lahat ng propesyon at kalakaran sa ngayon. Pera…Kwarta…at kumita.

Now regarding sa mga babasahing yan at ang comics…parang survival of the fittest na lang (kaso parang hindi match ano?).

CELEBRETY DEATHMATCH: Sex magazine VS Comics of all genre.
Robby Villabona on April 8th, 2008 4:50 pm

Gerry:

My brother gave me that info — but I don’t know where he got it. I will ask.

Bukod sa sex, use of drugs to stay awake at night is also the source of infection.

Yung binaril (at patay) na empleyado sa Sykes sa Makati around 3 years ago was a case of crime of passion. Apparently the wife of the killer was sleeping with the victim who was her officemate.

MYKE:

I think it’s naive to think that Atlas was making comics to provide wholesome entertainment to Pinoys. Atlas used to make those komiks because they’re the komiks that sold. Diba lahat din naman sila pumasok sa bomba komiks when that started selling?
gilbert monsanto on April 8th, 2008 5:05 pm

Sinabi mo pa John, yung ibang bata daw nagpapabili ng banana flavor— frenzy! Akala daw chiklet! Kagaguhan naman kasi ang ibang commercial din eh. Gimik without thinking minsan. Tapos yung Disney channel at iba pang kids sa cable biglang sinisingitan ng commercial ng James bond at iba pang may mga barilan, mapapanood na daw sa HBO. eng eng ba sila? kaya nga nasa pambata na channel dahil iniingatan ng mga magulang na di makapanood ng violence eh. May mga commercials din na wala nang values.

ADAM: Alam ko ang ibig mong sabihin pero let us face it, di naman iikot ang mundo eh, nasa management ang lahat ng power. Ang creators ay maghihintay lang kung maganda ang deal. So, mas malaki talaga ang temptation to make uto the creators kesa sa mauto ng creator ang management or company? May nabalitaan ka na ba na nanlamang na writer/creator sa Publisher nila? I don’t think so.
Eman on April 8th, 2008 5:46 pm

I still believe in Komiks. Kaya nga however far removed mga naging work ko (with the exception of animation) i try to be in touch with the komiks world. You mentioned names that were stalwart komiks publishers during my time ( I know, I used to be a magrarasyon-ng-dyaryo sa Paete, Laguna) and a stout komiks reader by the age of nine. Sana nga me magawa pa para maging interested uli ang mga bata sa art, illustration at komiks in general.
Lighten up, people, there’s always light after darkness, di baga? I have no qualms about Playhouse or other Playboy versions, it’s their money. Dumaan din ako sa phase na yan, but now mas okay siguro kung maisabay natin ang Art ng Komiks sa mga new publications.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 7:17 pm

Reading through all this, I’m really scratching my head. It’s kind of ironic, don’t you think, being questioned why I would want a comics company to publish… comics?
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 7:25 pm

“Ang sagot ko, sales of WASTED, ELMER, TROPA, CULTURE CRASH, NARDONG TAE, FK#1 are not evidence of a latent mass market. ”

I never offered my comics as “evidence” of a mass market. I offered them as examples of why I believe in the notion that “If you build it, they will come.” I made these comics, and people bought it and I profited from it. Notion proven.

I disagree with you about Filipino Komiks #1. It IS evidence that there is a big mass market for comics out there. To the people who worked on it, it’s plain as day. You just refuse to accept it.
Robby Villabona on April 8th, 2008 10:04 pm

“I disagree with you about Filipino Komiks #1. It IS evidence that there is a big mass market for comics out there. To the people who worked on it, it’s plain as day. You just refuse to accept it.”

How can you say that when you don’t even know how many copies were printed and sold, and over what period of time? Paging KC Cordero…

I am very willing to *consider* accepting it as soon as somebody tells me how many people bought FK#1, and how many more they confidently project to sell at P100 if they didn’t stop publishing.

And even then, you have to be doing it for over the normal lifetime of a fad. You don’t judge the viability of the market based on the sales of *one* issue.

Lest I be misunderstood, I’m not belittling the efforts of the people behind FK#1. I’m just saying its not a good gauge of a mass market for komiks. Cover price pa lang, alam mo nang hindi siya pang mass-market.
Robby Villabona on April 8th, 2008 10:45 pm

“Reading through all this, I’m really scratching my head. It’s kind of ironic, don’t you think, being questioned why I would want a comics company to publish… comics?”

I guess I’m just not comfortable seeing people tell other people (or companies) what they should be doing with their time and money. Like Eman said, it’s their money.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 10:47 pm

Well, Robby, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. It’s clear that the word of those worked on FK is not enough for you. So please feel free to go to the office of Rising Star and ask for a detailed accounting if that’s what you require, but for those who worked on it and know what went on, it’s no longer a matter of speculation or discussion. We know it. And we are now moving on.

We’re acting on it by proceeding to invest our time and efforts in this direction… Rising Star continued to publish comics with Lupin, and now KC has managed not only to include comics in The Buzz, he has already managed to convince ABS-CBN to invest in a comics magazine. It’s not out yet, but it will be soon. There are more comics coming out this month from other publishers.

So if you don’t agree with this or not is immaterial. This train is already going. The least you can do is wish us luck. More comics being published is after all what we all want, isn’t it?
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 10:50 pm

Robby, you feel uncomfortable with me wanting a comic book publisher to publish COMICS? This is getting more ironic by the minute.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 10:58 pm

Robby, what really bothers me with all this is that Atlas gave us several reasons for discontinuing comics last year at the Congress. 4 of the 5 reasons they gave had absolutely nothing to do with comics and can be applicable to any kind of publication. And yet they were able to publish this girly magazine in spite of all that. Isn’t there anything here you feel uncomfortable about?
Ferres on April 8th, 2008 11:19 pm

Honestly; if they published a cookbook of Filipino dishes, would people here be less upset.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 8th, 2008 11:32 pm

Hello Ferres! Thanks for dropping by!

In all honesty, I’ll be equally upset if they published anything else except comics.

I know that they publish a lot of other things, but if the reasons they gave last year for stopping publishing comics is true, then they shouldn’t have been able to publish anything at all.

This is a point I’m trying to make. With the reasons they gave last year, they shouldn’t have been able to publish anything at all. And yet they have, and it’s not comics.

I’m upset because I feel like I’ve just been lied to. And that the reasons they gave last year was just bullshit. They just don’t want to publish comics. They should have just come out and said it right from the start, instead of feeding us this bullshit about volcanic eruptions and all out wars in Mindanao.
Ferres on April 8th, 2008 11:50 pm

Why not work with what’s there? Can’t you guys offer them a mini-comic series that can be added to the current mag similar to your contributions in Fudge.

It may need to be more adult oriented but it would be a positive addition. Similar to what Penthouse had in the early days.

Say; ‘The Erotic Adventures of Jose Rizal’. :P
Gio Paredes on April 9th, 2008 1:24 am

“I’m upset because I feel like I’ve just been lied to. And that the reasons they gave last year was just bullshit. They just don’t want to publish comics. They should have just come out and said it right from the start, instead of feeding us this bullshit about volcanic eruptions and all out wars in Mindanao.”

Ganoon po kasi talaga kasi yung mga ibang tao. Instead of accepting the truth that it was their fault. They tend to point their fingers and blame on others.

From post #35
“Gerry, what I mean by (borrowed from FIELD OF ANGELS quote) “If you build it, they will come””

I think the title was “Field of DREAMS” and not “Angels” (Kevin Costner).
Gio Paredes on April 9th, 2008 1:52 am

“Reading through all this, I’m really scratching my head. It’s kind of ironic, don’t you think, being questioned why I would want a comics company to publish… comics?”

The only conclusion to that is that they are no longer a comics company. But the again, bakit pa nila dinemanda ang Filipino Komiks kung hindi na sila interesado mag komiks.

—-
I also believe in “If you build it, they will come”. Hindi naman sinabi na “They will come very very fast.” It will take time for the fan based and market to build up. Eh ano ngayon kung mababa ang nos of copies sold ng Indie comics? Ano po ba ang gusto nyong gawin natin? Huminto? Not me.

Ang umaayaw ay hindi nag wawagi.
Robby Villabona on April 9th, 2008 2:10 am

“Robby, you feel uncomfortable with me wanting a comic book publisher to publish COMICS?”

Yes. In blunt terms American’s popularized, it’s simply called M.Y.O.B.

I know I’d be bothered if people presumed to tell me who I really am and what I ought to be doing if I didn’t ask them.

Do you want people telling you that you’re really an inker, and you ought not to be going into this foolishness of writing and drawing your own comics, when what you really are as a person is an INKER?

Do you enjoy it when AKLAS ISIP tells you you should be writing in Tagalog because you ought to be making komiks for the masa, and not the target audience to whom you’ve chosen to sell?

That’s why people coined the term: M.Y.O.B.

ATLAS *was* a comic publisher. Their business died a long, slow death. Now they’re trying something new, and *they’re not a comic publisher anymore*. I hope they’re successful so they can make money that maybe they can invest into venturing again into the risky world of mass-market comics. Life goes on. Good luck, Atlas.
Robby Villabona on April 9th, 2008 2:20 am

“Robby, what really bothers me with all this is that Atlas gave us several reasons for discontinuing comics last year at the Congress. 4 of the 5 reasons they gave had absolutely nothing to do with comics and can be applicable to any kind of publication. And yet they were able to publish this girly magazine in spite of all that. Isn’t there anything here you feel uncomfortable about?”

I’d be bothered if I took those reasons seriously… but I didn’t so I’m not bothered(except the reason of “decline in readership”).

Most of those bullshit reasons I took to mean as that guy’s (kung ano man pangalan niyang best friend ni KC na iyan) way of saving face. By stating war and disaster as big reasons, he’s trying to say that the death of Atlas komiks was beyond his control and nothing he could’ve done would have mattered. Sa mga kontrata ang tawag diyan ay FORCE MAJEURE.

Besides, some of those reasons are 10-15 years old. It’s 2008. Things change… people are entitled to play outside again when the rain stops and the sun comes shining.
Carver on April 9th, 2008 2:23 am

Nakows, mukhang mas mainit pa sa turon ang talakayan dito!

Pag-iisipan ko muna ang topic na ito. :)
Robby Villabona on April 9th, 2008 2:40 am

“Well, Robby, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. It’s clear that the word of those worked on FK is not enough for you. ”

It’s not a matter of opinion. The fundamental gauge is how big the market is is how many copies you printed and sold. You don’t even know what that number is but you’ve concluded there’s a mass market for P100 komiks.

The word of KC to me was it broke even. Breaking even is not a gauge of market size. A 20-copy indie photocopied comic can break even. A 300,000 print run that sells only 100,000 can lose money. Which is a better gauge of mass market size?

It’s not that KC’s word is not good enough…it just doesn’t tell me anything about the market size. And you’re advertising FK#1 as proof of a mass market when you can’t even tell me how many copies were sold.
Robby Villabona on April 9th, 2008 2:58 am

“This is a point I’m trying to make. With the reasons they gave last year, they shouldn’t have been able to publish anything at all. And yet they have, and it’s not comics.”

This is a non sequitor. There are dozens upon dozens of other things they can still viably publish and sell even if you assume all their reasons to be true. I don’t see how you could’ve come to this conclusion.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 9th, 2008 7:17 am

“It’s not that KC’s word is not good enough…it just doesn’t tell me anything about the market size. And you’re advertising FK#1 as proof of a mass market when you can’t even tell me how many copies were sold.”

Once again, no longer relevant. We’re already proceeding with the belief that it was successful. If it wasn’t successful, why were subsequent comics projects begun? Why did Rising Star do Lupin? Why did KC bother to start more comics projects if he wasn’t sure there would be a market there? The mere fact that people invested MORE money, and people invested more TIME and EFFORT towards making more comics afterwards seems to indicate a faith that there would be people in that market that will read them.

I don’t know Robby why you’re so hung up on the numbers on this one. Vehement even. The reaction to FK and how it has performed is proof enough of a mass market to many of us who are involved in making comics. And because we believe in this, we’re pushing ahead with MORE comics projects. We’re acting on this belief. We’re investing money, time and effort on this belief. Admittedly, part of this is working on gut instinct. The irrational urge to take that leap of faith and take the risk. Being rational, perhaps it isn’t your bag. I don’t know why you’re so hung up on this, when it’s not you that’s doing the investing. We’re not requiring you to believe in this, or go along with it, or agree with it. In fact, we’re not even requiring you to do anything (except perhaps check out our comics when they’re out.)

It’s us that’s doing the investing and working and doing and we’re already going ahead. I am kind of offended that you would wish luck to Atlas on their girly magazine, and not wish us luck on our comics.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 9th, 2008 7:21 am

“There are dozens upon dozens of other things they can still viably publish and sell even if you assume all their reasons to be true. I don’t see how you could’ve come to this conclusion.”

I don’t see how you couldn’t. The reasons they gave would cripple them from publishing anything.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 9th, 2008 7:26 am

“ATLAS *was* a comic publisher. Their business died a long, slow death. Now they’re trying something new, and *they’re not a comic publisher anymore*”

Well, if the said THAT last year instead of giving us bullshit reasons for not publishing comics anymore, I’d be less upset.

Yes, it’s perfectly obvious they’re no longer a comic book publisher. And the fact that they’re no longer a comic book publisher, after being one so successfully for many decades is TRAGIC.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 9th, 2008 7:31 am

I am perfectly entitled to write that I would like Atlas Publishing to continue publishing comics. As anyone is free and entitled to want me to continue inking. People have already asked me to continue inking to my face and drop whatever else I’m doing. That’s just how it is. I can take it. If anyone here can’t stomach it, then TOUGH.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 9th, 2008 7:33 am

“Ganoon po kasi talaga kasi yung mga ibang tao. Instead of accepting the truth that it was their fault. They tend to point their fingers and blame on others.”

That’s right, Gio. Like Robby said, they’re saving face.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 9th, 2008 7:38 am

“Why not work with what’s there? Can’t you guys offer them a mini-comic series that can be added to the current mag similar to your contributions in Fudge.”

That would actually be a great idea, Ferres. This seems like to be your area of expertise. Maybe you could? I remember something like this in the magazine Pump. I’m sure you’re familiar with it. What did you think of their comics section?
Gerry Alanguilan on April 9th, 2008 7:41 am

“The only conclusion to that is that they are no longer a comics company. But the again, bakit pa nila dinemanda ang Filipino Komiks kung hindi na sila interesado mag komiks.”

The fact that they’re publishing things other than comics is an indication that they are no longer a comics company. But I’m also asking what you’re asking. Why be so bothered by the publication of Filipino Komiks? Unless they still have an interest in pursuing their comics product.

So what are they waiting for?
Ferres on April 9th, 2008 10:11 am

Lol.
Not familiar with the Pump mag, I don’t get out much. ;P

“That would actually be a great idea, Ferres. This seems like to be your area of expertise. Maybe you could?”

I wish I could if I wasn’t committed to other projects. Besides, Playhouse may well be a little too mellow for me. If only this happened a decade ago.

Anyway; previous failings aside, there maybe an opportunity here for you guys to produce more mature comic material. :)
gilbert monsanto on April 9th, 2008 10:12 am

In the end, we will agree to disagree :)

Robby: magsuggest ka na lang kung paano matutulungan ang comic industry sa bansa. Ako, stop na ako dito, kasi magstart pa ko komiks ko ulit :)
Myke Guisinga on April 9th, 2008 10:18 am

Magkausap kami nila Jonas Diego at John Becaro kahapon (April 8) at napagusapan namin ang topic na ito at ang mga komentong nailahad ng bawat isa. Maraming tama sa mga pinonoint out nyo at lahat nman tayo ay nagaasam na may isang Atlas na muling tutulong sa pag balik ng industriang komiks.

Pero habang wala, siguro ay dapat natin nalang pasalamatan ang mga gaya nila Sir Gerry, Gilbert M., KC at iba pa (mga nasa indie na kahit nasa class A and B ang target market) na nagbibigay buhay sa komiks.

Im not after facts about sales. And I’m not after philosophical arguments (kasi kahit paikot-ikutin pa man natin ito, wala din nman kapupuntahan). Andito tayo kase nagtutulungan tayo sa komiks at gusto nating ibangon muli ang komiks. Either maganda ang sales o hindi. Maganda ang production o hindi. Bottom line may ginagawa tayong komiks para sa mga mamamayan pinoy. Kahit pa para lang sa kapit bahay mo ang kopyang yan o sa presidente ng kumpanyang hinahalikan natin ang pwete para tumaas ang ating position. O kahit kanino pa man…

Iisa lang, tayo na ang gumawa. Tayo ang magtulungan. Ngayon kung hindi ka nakasali kasi dahil sa kung anong kadahilanan, wag mong hilahin sila pababa na nagbuhos ng oras, pera at paglikha sa mga komiks na ito…bagkus, maging supportive sana tayo.

SALUDO AKO SA INYONG LAHAT KASI ANG TATALINO NYO SA PAGDEBATE. Pero sana, ipakita din natin sa gawa. Kung HATE nyo ang tumutulong i-ahon ang komiks…let them be. Atleast sila nag uubos ng kaunting kinita nila para maglabas ng komiks…ehh yun ibang may malalaki ang kita?

JOHN BECARO…I hate you! hahahaha!
Fermin Salvador on April 9th, 2008 10:36 am

Speaking of “selling sex”, the IN words during the late 80s to early 90s were “sex trip”, (or, more popularly, ST) and “titillating” (as in titillating films or TF) and the heydays of sexy/naughty movie roles for Gretchen Barreto, Cristina Gonzales, Rita Avila, etc. Will ST komiks-version be far behind? Those were still the days when the pages of komiks is a prominent space where everyone could see the signs of the times in the Pinoy realm. Almost all the known names of komiks publishing entity then from GASI to Ace to Mass Media to Rex released one or more (sometimes much more) own unique title(s) of “ST komiks”…except Atlas Publishing. Before you get it wrong, “ST komiks” is way above the so-called “bomba komiks” in level of decency. No actual nudity or dirty words in ST komiks. It’s more of a tease to the imagination. Usually funny/humorous situations. Like in “KOMIKS NI MISIS KOMIKS” of Mass Media where the plot is always about a philandering husband getting caught and punished by his wife in the end. This is just one example. Generally, ST komiks stories could still be (liberally) considered “for general patronage” or, perhaps, be rated “parental guidance”. Among its creators and publishers, there was somewhat an existing (unwritten/undefined) code of “good taste” that serves as self-imposed limit. This seemed to be the trend then (in the movies, music, everywhere) and enjoyed by millions of Filipinos of adult (and mostly adolescent) ages. Yet Atlas Publishing refuse to join the bandwagon. It did not release its own “ST” komiks.

Our story does not end there. Among the komiks companies, it was Rex Publishing that probably released the most number of “ST komiks” titles. (The probable reason(s) behind this
“concentration” could be another good topic someday). Rex Pub had TISAY WOW KOMIKS, DARLING KOMIKS, HONEY KOMIKS, among others, and provided good source of income for new/starting komiks writers as each of these komiks need about 8
“shorts” a week. Rex Pub, as you know, is also a major publisher of text books for virtually all college and post-grad courses. Its law books line alone is a multi-million-peso-business. In addition to this, and this translates to higher revenues, is its educational text books as Rex Pub supplies exclusive books to private elementary and high schools. And as we all know, most private schools in the Philippines are being ran by religious institutions. One day and as I heard about it (so be cautious as this is hearsay) some nuns/sisters visited the Rex Pub office building and accidentally (or was it really accidental?) noticed some piles of “ST komiks” and were allegedly “shocked” by its content. They expressed disgust that a supposed prestigeous educational book publishing company is also producting such “stuffs”. Before they left they took with them, and carefully kept, some copies of the “ST komiks”…purportedly to use as evidence for more protests. Anyway, subsequently, one Rex Pub executive was heard to have casually said: “Magkano lang ba ang kinikita natin sa mga komiks na ‘yan? Nasa kalahating milyon lang kada taon.” That plain argument seemed to have put a conclusion to the agenda of the meeting. From that day on, no more komiks publishing for them. Komiks was literally and entirely scrapped. Unconditional. Even the issues that were already in the press were stopped. Even already finished copies were not distributed to the market. Until now, many former Rex Pub contributors may still be wandering what happened to all those reservoir of paid materials (scripts & illustrations) that were “indefinitely frozen”? Were they all simply thrown away? Still kept? As any person who had an experience working in a big komiks company knows, every komiks title then had at least a month (4 weeks) of issues finished in advance while the stack of paid raw materials (scripts & illustrations) could be good for many months ahead. Some known as well as promising new artists then were regularly working for Rex Pub. All those stocks of scripts, illustrations, negatives, finished issues…gone overnight.
Was that due to “principle” or plain sound business decision? Guess. Guess.
johnbecaro on April 9th, 2008 10:43 am

Isa pa pong posibilidad bakit nagventure ang Atlas na magbenta ng sex kesa sa komiks ay sa dahilang wala ng masyadong nagtitiwalang magkokomiks sa management nila kaya hindi marami ang mga contributors nila.Compare natin sa Sterling na kahit papanu marami ang nagtitiwala na pag dito sila kahit maliit ang bayad, nasisiguro nila na may pupuntahan pa din ang pinaghihirapan nila. Marami ang inis sa Atlas, to take note, isa ito sa hindrance bakit hindi sila makalabas labas ng comics, after the Komiks Congress at pagpapalabas ng Filipino Komiks ni KC(at naghablaan), nagpalabas sila ng komiks na about Dengue. SEE?
Yung reason na bakit hinabala nila ang Rising Star ay to halt the production nito, thinking na kaya na din nila magproduce uli at sa kanila pumunta yung ibang nag kokomiks, e panu nila magagawa kung wala na gustong gumawa sa kanila?

Yung tingin ko dito, wala na talaga ang Atlas, kaya dun sila nagbenta sa sex . PROSTITUTION on a corporate form hehehe (No Im not thinking about the literal meaning).Wala e, wala na silang maisip.Kundi ayan magbugaw ng Sex ideas para mag kapera.

Sige atlas, ihabla niyo din ako para malaman ng bayan kung anu talaga motibo niyo. PERA!hahaha
Gio Paredes on April 9th, 2008 11:26 am

“I am kind of offended that you would wish luck to Atlas on their girly magazine, and not wish us luck on our comics.”

Oo nga naman. With all do respect Mr. Robby, majority of what you have posted here are offending and very negative for an independent comics creator.
kc cordero on April 9th, 2008 12:21 pm

‘YUNG Filipino Komiks ay a little below 5,000 copies ang na-print. kung bakit hindi eksakto, ‘yun lang ang inabot ng stocks (paper) na binili. ang style kasi ng risingstar ay naghahanap lang ng surplus na papel at sila na ang nagka-cut para mas makatipid.
may natira sigurong kopya na wala pang 100. ito na ‘yung na-pullout sa NBS alinsunod sa pananakot ng mga abogado ng atlas.
hindi ko tinarget ang mass market noon, ang nasa isip ko talaga ay ‘yung mahihilig lang sa komiks na handang magbitaw ng P100 ke maganda o pangit ang komiks. at sa pagkatanda ko, wala naman akong sinabi na pangmasa (in terms of purchasing power, or what usually caught the masses reading fancy) ang FK.
simple lang ang pormula: kung may 10,000 mahilig sa komiks (comics junkies) na regular na bibili ng FK, magandang-maganda na iyon. 10,000 print run lang ang target ko noon sana.
napakamura ng naging production cost ng FK dahil bukod sa cover ay wala namang ibang ipina-color sep dito. sa totoo lang, mahal pa ang nagpa-xerox.
sinabi ko kay robby na break even because that’s my character. i usually play low profile.
kay eusebio yu, kung bakit hindi na lang nagpalit ng title… kasi, sir… ang pambu-bully ng atlas sa risingstar ay hindi nagtapos sa FK. pati po ‘yung ibang titles ay tinangka rin nilang ipatanggal sa NBS, at kinailangan pang makipag-usap ako sa head ng NBS para huwag namang gano’n. at napakahabang kuwento kung paano ko na-persuade ang mga taga-NBS na huwag nang isali sa hindi nila ibebenta o ipapa-pullout ang non-cmics title ng risingstar.
ang konklusyon ko ay ayaw ng atlas na may gumagawa ng komiks na dating employees ng atlas, kaya lahat nang paraan ay ginagawa nila para mapigil ito.
ako man ay nagtataka rin kung bakit ang dating pinakamalaking publisher ng komiks ay allergic na sa komiks. i can only make an educated guess.
‘yun namang ‘lupin’ ng risingstar (hindi ako kasama sa desisyong ito) sa aking pananaw ay maling hakbang. bakit po? una ay nagbayad sa gma-7 para rights na mai-publish ito. ang amount na ‘yun ay sapat na para na-print ang illustration book ni mang nestor malgapo, o ni joey celerio, na sa tingin ay much wiser investment.
isa pa, ina-anticipate ko nang bago pa lumabas ang komiks ay tapos na ang tv series, at tiyak na nakalimutan na ng tao.
at marami pang factors na ayoko nang i-elaborate kasi siguro sa pagitan na lang namin iyon ng mga may-ari ng risingstar. at dahil ako ay ‘editor lang’ kinapos ako ng powers para mag-explain sa kanila kung bakit nahirapan silang kumita sa lupin unlike sa FK.
sa tanong na succesful ba ang FK, kung ‘yung kinita ang pag-uusapan kahit isang isyu lang, oo naman. saka 2 taon na ang nakalilipas, sariwa pa ito sa isip ng mga nakabili. up to now, may mga nag-e-email sa akin kung kailan lalabas ‘yung #2. siguro sa komikon this year, indie na para mahirapan silang magdemanda, tutal binitawan na rin naman ito ng risingstar.
at kung kumita ba ang publisher nito kahit iisang isyu, ang sagot ay napakalaking OO.
tagumpay man o hindi ang FK, i’m sure na may naitulong ito kahit konti para kahit paano ay magkakulay ang mundo ng mga komikero na nakonsumi rito o kaya ay natuwa.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 9th, 2008 1:10 pm

I just wanted to add something else to what I said earlier. “It’s their money.” is a valid reason for Atlas’s decision to do Playhouse instead of comics. Yes, it’s their money and they can do whatever they want with it.

But let’s not forget that they have in their possession several comic book titles, institutions in their own right, that have been around long before Atlas even came into existence. These comic books have been the channel through which some of the greatest comics stories in our history have been told. They have been a strong and significant part of our culture for a large part of the last century, and have accompanied the lives of millions of Filipinos for many years. A lot of our parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and friends lived and died reading these comic books. Many of these stories they have read, enjoyed and have been touched by at some point in their lives.

Born in Ace Publications, these titles passed through several publishers until finally Atlas Publications received them and has been their guardian and caretaker for the last couple of decades.

The way I see it, having those titles is a big responsibility. Publishing them, and keeping them part of our lives and our culture is not only a business, but a solemn obligation.

But they let the titles deteriorate and wither until at the very last they were gone. I fully reject the reasons they gave last year for the demise of their comics. I reject them vehemently. Specially when the publication of Playhouse has demonstrated that they are perfectly able to publish, in spite of their excuses last year. I put the blame squarely on the mismanagement of their comics, their inability adapt to new realities, and their unwillingness to improve their product.

I perfectly understand that readership of comics has declined. They have worldwide. But the market has not declined to the point that it would be impractical to continue the business and no longer profit from it. Comics still sell today. It has been proven.

If they no longer want to do comics, and that they no longer consider themselves a comic book publisher, then they don’t deserve guardianship of these comic book titles. Perhaps it’s best to give up those titles and let someone else publish them. Someone else who will give these comic book titles the respect that they deserve.

I swear to God, if I only have the the money, I will buy the rights to these titles and I will publish them myself.
Randy Valiente on April 9th, 2008 2:26 pm

Makasali nga :)

Ang totoo niyan ay gusto pang gumawa ng komiks ng Atlas. Isang friend ko ang nag-propose sa kanila ng ilang komiks titles at natuwa naman dito si Mr. Deo Alvarez, kuwento ng kaibigan ko, ito daw ang sabi: “Matagal ko nang hinihintay ang ganitong komiks.” Ibig sabihin, tuma-timing lang din si Mr. Alvarez na makakita ng quality komiks na tiyak na babasahin ng marami.

Naniniwala ako na simuman dito sa atin ay puwedeng pumunta sa Atlas para mag-propose ng title na gusto niya. Ang dapat na lang ninyong pag-usapan ng ‘matino’ ay kung paano ang sistema ng proposal niyo pagdating sa hatian at bayaran, at copyright issues, pati na ang editorial policy.

Kung ako sa katayuan ng Atlas, naiintindihan ko kung bakit mas malakas ang loob ko na maglabas ng bold mag. Ito kasi ang malakas ngayon, at makakakuha ng maraming advertisers.

Maraming factors ang tinitingnan niya kung bakit hindi pa sila sure sa komiks sa ngayon:

1. Wala pang komiks na pumapalo ngayon ng malakas sa market, hindi sila kumbinsido sa resulta ng CJC-Sterling dahil once a month na lang ito at hindi napanghawakan ang sinasabing once a week ang labas.

2. Hindi kayang sustenahan ng benta ng ‘high-end komiks’ (mga glossy na P85 pataas ang presyo) ang publication cost dahil marami silang pinapasuwelduhang tao, hindi lang editorial people kundi ang mga nasa imprenta. Remember na naglabas na sila noon ng ATX, K2K, at yung parang WITCH. Pero tig-iisang issue lang ang mga ito. Ito rin ang naging problema ng PSICOM sa mga titles ng komiks nila, na-realize nila later on na parang masyadong ‘mataas’ ang level ng komiks at hindi masyadong nata-tap ang wide audience. Direct kong nakausap ang may-ari tungkol dito.

Siguro nasa ’safe side’ lang ang Atlas ngayon, katulad lang din ng iba pang publications. nakikiramdam kung anong produkto sa market, ganyan lang naman ang sistema sa publication, pakiramdaman kung ano ang malakas, iyon ang ilalabas.

Sabi ko nga, open sa proposal ang Atlas, bukas ang pintuan nila para sa isang meeting. At handa silang maglabas ng komiks, patutunayan niyo nga lang na bebenta ito.

At sa tanong kung bakit hindi sila ang magsimula ulit ng komiks? Siguro kung kaya niyo nang palitan sa puwesto ang general manager :)
johnbecaro on April 9th, 2008 2:48 pm

Ka Randy,

yan ang magandang paliwanag.Nakakarelax..hahahahaha
Gerry Alanguilan on April 9th, 2008 2:55 pm

“Siguro nasa ’safe side’ lang ang Atlas ngayon, katulad lang din ng iba pang publications. nakikiramdam kung anong produkto sa market, ganyan lang naman ang sistema sa publication, pakiramdaman kung ano ang malakas, iyon ang ilalabas.”

Yun ang pinagtataka ko, Randy. Yun na rin ang sabi ko kay Robby. Saan manggagaling ang “evidence” na ang isang bagay ay malakas kung walang magsisimula?

Di ako sold sa idea na bold ang ginawa nila kasi yan ang malakas NGAYON. Sus, lagi namang malakas basta bold e. Para sa akin ang isang publishing company na hindi naman gumagawa ng bold noong araw, at biglang gumawa ng bold ngayon, para sa akin act of desperation na yun. Pinili nila ang sure na kikita, di bale nang degrading sa mga babae.

Kung ang gagawin natin ay magtitinginan lang at maghihintay kung ano ang malakas, Waiting for Godot ang uwi natin nyan.

Kaya agree ako sa sinabi mo. Playing it safe lang sila. Di na ako ng eexpect sa kanila ng higit pa dyan.

Well, sana kumita ng maigi ang SINDAK!, at ang iba pang mga komiks na lalabas itong mga darating na buwan. Para naman lumakas ang loob ng mga “playing it safe” na maglabas uli ng comics.

Pero sa totoo lang, habang humahaba ang discussion na ito, naisip ko, gusto ko nga ba na maglabas ng komiks muli ang Atlas, habang ganun pa rin kanilang thinking about comics, habang ganun pa rin ang kanilang mentality tungkol sa comics, habang ang mga taong responsable sa pagpabaya sa komiks nila ay nandun pa rin?

Pagod na dugo na ang umiiral doon. Pagod na dugo. Kung may pagbabago man ang magaganap doon, sa tingin ko kelangan na ng pag pasok ng mga mas bata na fresh and enthusiastic pa rin sa komiks, at may makabagong mentalidad sa pag gawa ng komiks.
Myke Guisinga on April 9th, 2008 3:37 pm

Randy, kamusta na? John, Humupa na ang sama ng loob ko sayo, forgiven ka na..hehehe

Ok. Para sa lahat po. Ask lang, Realistic ba ang twice a month titles? Or kung once a month ilalabas, pwde na ba ang 5titles a week pero monthly basis? so sa isang buwan may 20 titles tayong ilalabas? pero by batch:

Classic stories (5 titles) 1st week.
Ghost stories (5 titles) 2nd week.
Romance Stories (5 titles) 3rd week at
Humor ctories at iba pa (5titles) 4th week.

or un twice a week para hndi mahaba ang pananabik ng mga mambabasa?

Kung ang habol ay sales. Bakit hindi ganito ang gawin? Risky? Kasi hindi mo alam kung kikita? Pero kung may malalim kang access sa ibat ibang panig ng Pilipinas diba kaya mong ilabas ang mga ito ng walang kahirap hirap? May ilang pook pa din naman sa pinas ang mahina ang signal ng cell phone. Walang Cable TV at worst, un iba walang kuryente. Na ang pwedeng libangan ay mag parami ng pamilya. Kung may komiks silang mababasa at kaaabangan kada lingo, ano na kaya ang magiging resulta?

Saka kung kikita o hindi, bakit hindi gumalaw ang paswelduyang mga A.E. para maghanap ng mga kliyente na makakatulong sa production cost? Diba dyan makikita ang husay sa P.R. ng A.E. na nagtatrabaho sa isang kumpanya?

Nagtatanong lang.
John Beatty on April 9th, 2008 8:21 pm

I would like to help the Komiks in the Philippines! Many of my favorite Komik Artists’ are Filipino.

I’m willing to lend a helping “brush” or pencil, etc, to get something going there.

Gerry…you, Edgar, and the rest should try to get something going perhaps?

I do not know the costs involved there…maybe email me with some of that?

Ingat, all!
-John
Robby Villabona on April 10th, 2008 4:17 am

Ok, so now we have a number. Does anyone think here one issue of 5,000 copies sold at P100 each is a sign that there’s a mass market for comics? There you have it straight from the editor’s mouth — it wasn’t targeted at the mass market, but to comic enthusiasts who want to buy comics whether it’s any good or not. Yet you come to a conclusion even the editor’s words cannot support.

Gerry, I have no doubt that the komiks projects of Rising Star were successful in their own right. You’re confused when you think I don’t believe they were ’successful’, however that was defined. I’m just saying you’re wrong to conclude that there’s a mass market for 100-peso Pinoy komiks based on news from KC that FK was successful. Your conclusion doesn’t follow the premise.

If you think I’m hung up on numbers, then *you should* be hung up about it too. The whole essence of what a mass market is *IS* the numbers. Everything else is irrelevant if you don’t know the numbers. Also, if you want potential investors to listen to you, you have to speak in their terms (numbers), not vague generalities and motherhood words like “successful”, “sold out”, “reprints”, “profitable”, and lofty calls to put other people’s money in what *you* think is a sure hit.

Ok, so you’re free to say what you want. But maybe we can tone down the preaching and the non sequitor conclusions. The fact is, you don’t know what’s going on inside Atlas. Over sa allegations at over sa hysteria, given the little you really know about what’s really going on (as I can see from Randy’s post). “They just don’t want to publish komiks”, you say. How did you come to that conclusion? I don’t go around sleeping with every beautiful woman I see. Can you conclude that I don’t want to? I don’t go around killing every mother-f*cking, inconsiderate, reckless PUJ/FX/TAXI and arrogant SUV drivers I encounter. Can you conclude that deep in my heart I don’t want to?

I’ve been so busy today I have no time to reply to every question or point raised so I’ll just tackle some in my next post (if ever).

Gilbert: you asked what I think should people do to help revive the komiks industry. I think that discussion is best made in PKMB (so is this one, actually).

Pero sneak preview ito ng keywords ng aking opinyon: kickstart, young, manga, Tagalog, licensing, adaptation, reprint, newsprint, Universal Robina, package, junk food, candy, donuts, pasalubong, mass market.
Robby Villabona on April 10th, 2008 4:31 am

“I don’t see how you couldn’t. The reasons they gave would cripple them from publishing anything.”

Which of the 5 reasons given cripples a publisher from publishing *anything*?
Robby Villabona on April 10th, 2008 4:47 am

Fermin,

My guess is that it was a sound business decision. Malamang napagsabihan siya ng mga madre — give it up, or else. Pero kung malaki kita nung bomba komiks, I bet he would have spun it off under a separate company, in a separate office never to be visited by people wearing habits.
Fermin Salvador on April 10th, 2008 8:46 am

“Pero kung malaki kita nung bomba komiks, I bet he would have spun it off under a separate company, in a separate office never to be visited by people wearing habits.”

Rob,

I tend to agree.

On another note, it’s so upsetting how Atlas could “sink” this low. As I’ve said, during those few years when “ST komiks stories” was the “in” thing everywhere Atlas stood its ground and did not (even contemplated? to) release any ST komiks. But now…

Do I need to tell my views what led Rex to ST komiks in the first place?
auggie on April 10th, 2008 9:25 am

Rob,

” kung malaki ang kita ng bomba komiks….” the editors of Rex sneezed at the half a million bucks na kita noong sideline nila, vis-a-vis sa kita nila na gazillion sa mga textbooks, noong threatened by the madres to give it up or else. Of course, it was a very wise business decision. Para silang nag-patiwakal kung hindi nila ginawa yun…

On the other hand, half a million bucks na kita ng isang struggling indie comics publishing na basically, a one-man show, is I think a modest success, di ba ? waddaya think ? everything is relative….

Auggie
Eusebio Yu on April 10th, 2008 8:22 pm

What Myke said was right. What we really need is consistency. Of course quality is a given. What local comic title has come out on a regular basis? ZILCH. People lose interest quickly if a title is several weeks late, let alone months..or even YEARS. The ’success’ of a few individuals can not be considered a success on the whole local comic industry, if there such a thing. Sporadic publications of ‘graphic novels’, indie titles in various form and sizes, serialization of TV programs with no real regular comics being published every month DOES NOT a comic industry make. Come on, we can do better than this! John Beatty’s offer is a very nice gesture. Let’s not waste it.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 10th, 2008 10:19 pm

Eusebio… the reality of the situation is this: most Filipino comics creators today don’t make money from comics. That’s the cold hard truth of it. This forces them to find day jobs in advertising agencies, storyboarding companies, animation companies, call centers and other jobs that pay real money. These people don’t have to do comics. Why should they? They can just go on doing their day jobs for the rest of their lives.

So why do they do comics? Why do they still spend whatever spare time to do it? Some of them manage to do a panel a day, a couple of panels a day, a comic book once every few months, once a year… without a company hiring them. They put their own money into publishing and distributing them, and they do this out of their own initiative.

WHY? Because they love comics. They WANT to do comics, paid or not.

They way I see it, these people need thanking for doing this. For volunteering their own money and time for creating these comics in the absence of a publisher, and not slap them in the face for coming with out with them so rarely, and so late.

I think we’re starting to take our independent creators for granted, that we’re starting to think they owe us something. They don’t owe us ANYTHING.

We have many talented writers and artists but they choose to work on jobs outside comics because as I said, they can’t make a living out of it. It is simply beyond our physical and financial capability to come out with comics day in and day out on a regular basis.

A comics industry cannot survive simply on writers and artists alone.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED PUBLISHERS.

They are the ones that will make use of us, hire us, and pay us to create comics. They need to pay us well enough to make us QUIT our day jobs so we can devote our time to comics full time.

And this is why I’m so freaking pissed that Atlas is doing freaking girly magazines and not comics. That’s why I’m freaking pissed they are “playing it safe” just WAITING for something to happen.

We can just keep on talking about this, you know, wanting and wishing to have a more lively industry, with comics coming out on a regular basis, all this talk about getting along and working together etc. etc…. we can all talk about this until we’re blue in the face, but the reality of it is, we will not get that dream komiks industry until more people come along with millions of pesos to invest… who have the guts NOT TO PLAY IT SAFE and use it to publish comics, and respects and pays its creators well.

But until then, people won’t be quitting their day jobs anytime soon. In the meantime, we’ll just have to make do with what they manage to come out with in their free time.
Fermin Salvador on April 11th, 2008 9:37 am

“On the other hand, half a million bucks na kita ng isang struggling indie comics publishing na basically, a one-man show, is I think a modest success, di ba ? waddaya think ? everything is relative….”

You said it right na “sideline” lang sa Rex ang line of komiks nila noon. “Insignificant sideline” pa nga. maraming advantage ang big publishing company like Rex kaya even if just a sideline they were able to “casually” (but regularly) release around 7 or 8 titles a week in the market. Una rito ay ang resources like (moderately modern) working printing presses and discounted rates for papers, inks, etc. (Rex buy this by bulk. It’s hard to believe this but only about 5 or less “regular employees” were running this insignificant sideline. That included the lone editor who had to pick/approve about a hundred of scripts and illustrations a week that Rex needed on a weekly basis out of hundreds that were being submitted, every week. No wonder the quality was no match to those offered by Atlas. But as Rex saved in cost of production and saved more from human resources it is easy to understand why the business was earning easily. Siguro added factors dito yung noon ay availability of organized distribution system, and the still proven mass patronage of komiks, and last but not the least, yung focus sa theme na gusto ng public at that time.

Since komiks is about publishing, importante ang investment sa printing press. Ownership of your own press is one way to lessen the cost of publishing (something that will only be a dream for the meantime to indies).
Myke Guisinga on April 11th, 2008 12:36 pm

Sir Fermin, since close po kayo sa Rex Publication, bakit hindi nyo kaya lapitan muli ang Rex para gumawa muli ng comics. Magtulong tulong tayong ligawan silang muli? Malay natin baka nag-aantay lang sila ng may lalapit at may magpupush sa kanila para gawin muli ang komiks.
Robby Villabona on April 11th, 2008 12:44 pm

Fermin,

I actually think publishing PLAYHOUSE is doing the industry a service. If it succeeds as a mainstream magazine, then it weakens the position of moralists and pro-censorship groups. It will be a small step forward in the fight against censorship. Second, if it can raise money for ATLAS, then it will also increase the chances that they go into komiks publishing again. Obviously it is easier to take a risk if you have more money than less.

Pero sa tingin ko tagilid ang PLAYHOUSE — it’s gone over the threshold of what a guy would not find embarassing to buy in a mall out in the open. This is how MAXIM in the UK (which started the men’s magazine craze) beat all the established magazines like PLAYBOY and PENTHOUSE. In my own personal, unscientific observation, there’s a lot of unsold copies out there (that ‘bondage’ issue has been on magazine store shelves for a long time). In four months I’ve only seen 2 issues come out. I don’t think there’s an AB, upper C market for ‘risque’ magazines (from the pictures I’ve seen, this doesn’t qualify as porn) because there’s already the Internet for that.

Gerry,

You speak as though there’s a teeming mass of readers just waiting for someone to pour millions to the effort so they can read komiks. But in fact, most evidence for the last 10 years shows that comics here is just an incredibly difficult market to resurrect. I’ve seen a multitude of comics titles from PSICOM, CULTURE CRASH, NEO, MANGO, SUMMIT etc. etc. Where are they today? The only one I see alive that comes out regularly is a foreign reprint (WITCH). Aren’t those the PUBLISHERS you say this industry needs? Given that evidence, I would judge it wise not to go into comics publishing in a big way.

Even SINDAK is not full blown comics — but a magazine with comics pages. THE BUZZ with 3-4 pages of TIMAWA doesn’t even count. Where’s LUPIN? It just shows people are really playing it safe for now, with good reason. For now I’m content with watching how Sterling does after a year or so.

And business is not all about guts. It’s only called guts when it’s successful, it’s called stupidity when it fails. It’s about being astute and observing your surroundings. Pag tag-ulan, magtitinda ka ba ng halo-halo? Pag tag-init, magtitinda ka ba ng kapote? It takes guts to do them, but you know how that will turn out.

You say that a publisher that doesn’t invest in komiks nowadays has no guts, but given the evidence, they’re probably just wise. Don’t take your anger out on the publishers who are playing it safe. Who wants to work for someone suicidal? What they do or don’t do is just a reflection of the sentiments of the market. Take your anger out on the public who’s moved on to other things other than komiks.

You know what a wise publisher should do if he really wants to develop a komiks market? He should put his money somewhere else where it’s almost guaranteed to make a lot of money. Why? By making sure you have a cash cow, you extend your “pisi” in your komiks venture, which may need a long investment period. Not like how I’ve seen the likes of MANGO do it resulting in a lot of ’starting up’ but not a lot of continuation. So again, good luck, ATLAS.

For the last dozen years or so I’ve seen a few publishers “build it”, but still they don’t come.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 11th, 2008 12:50 pm

Sorry you feel that way, Robby. I honestly don’t know what to say to you anymore. We’re just two completely different people who believe in completely different things. I don’t think we’ll ever get along or agree on matters such as this. I said as much to you many years ago. I’ve said all that I could about this, and if I respond further, I’ll just be repeating myself. We’ll be reduced to being two kids screaming “Is not!”, “Is too!” over and over, and THAT would be wasting saliva.

Let me just say that if I were made to think like you, and believe in the same things you do, I’d rather shoot myself. There is no place in my life for playing it safe. If I did, I won’t be making comics. I’d be working in an office punching a clock. It’s death to me.

I think it would be a much better life for the both of us if you just didn’t listen to me so you don’t get worked up about what I’m saying, and I’ll do the same for you. All right?
Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal » Blog Archive » Apr. 11, 2008: I have heard the new statistics and the stomping on the ground on April 11th, 2008 7:29 pm

[...] Gerry Alanguilan notes that the Atlas Publishing Company, once the largest publisher of comics in the Philippines, [...]
Robby Villabona on April 12th, 2008 4:38 am

I promise to not react to anything you write in private that cannot be seen anywhere in public media.

I’m not asking you to share my belief or interpretation of the world. It’s really none of my business how you choose to make a living and what you want to believe in pursuit of that. But I would ask that you afford others the courtesy that you ask of others. If you ask that the responsibility of resurrecting an industry not be placed on your shoulders, then you shouldn’t be asking that of others, too. If you’re annoyed at the ‘false expectations’ of others, then you shouldn’t be making false expectations of others as well (ATLAS and other publishers ‘playing it safe’ in this case).

Anything other than that is trying to have your cake and eat it, too — just like wishing you could write strong opinions in public and have people like me ignore it. In the words of the person who posted comment #75, “if [you] can’t stomach it, then tough”.

Honestly, whether there is a mass market for komiks or not is actually irrelevant and is actually a distraction to the point I’m making now. Even if God went down from heaven and announced to the world there’s a big market for komiks in the Philippines, it’s still none of our business where ATLAS chooses to go.
Fermin Salvador on April 12th, 2008 7:19 am

Myke,

Hindi naman talaga ako ganun ka-close sa Rex, laluna ngayong nasa kabilang pisngi na ako ng mundo. After so many years marami na ring pagbabago ng “personalidad” sa management nila. Saka base sa experience ko, ang proseso nila ay mas marami pang bureaucratic red tapes kesa sa isang ahensiya ng gobyerno. At dahil ang main business nila ay textbooks, umaapaw sila sa mga managers & consultants na “academicians” na ang sinusunod ay puro formalities. Magpo-propose ka lang ng concept sa isang mini songhits mag ay kailangang mag-present ka ng kumpletong papeles kasama na ang gagamitin mong “guidelines”. The same thing (palagay ko) kung magpo-propose sa ibang existing “big time” publishing companies ngayon — kailangang i-present mo ang iyong ideas completely in writing and not just in writing but in formal/technical style. Kung itatanong naman kung paanong lumusot sa Rex ang “ST komiks” in the first place? For the info of everyone, Rex is relatively an old komiks publisher at hindi “ST komiks” ang original komiks nila. Jim Fernandez’ novel “Inca” (if I’m not mistaken) appeared in one of Rex titles in the 70s and it was in this novel where the character “Zuma” originated. Rex komiks line seemed to have been born at the same time that Rex started as a publishing company. And, perhaps, this line of komiks initially contributed much to over-all financial growth of the company helping it to get established as a textbook publisher until the time that it earned such prominence and revenues from publishing textbooks that continuing its komiks line eventually became a disposable baggage.
Considering the way they “terminated” this komiks line and the total amount they sacrificed in the process, mahirap mahulaan kung ano ang sentimyento nila ngayon tungkol sa komiks. Pero maganda ang sinabi mong “panliligaw” at hindi lang sa Rex ito puwedeng gawin kundi sa lahat ng malalaking publishers. Kaya lang babalik tayo sa
“formal presentation”. In fact, kung mayroong
“formal presentation” kahit foreign publishers ay puwedeng “ligawan” na mag-invest sa komiks sa Pilipinas at makakatulong pa sa bansa dahil sa panghihikayat ng foreign investors that provide- more-jobs-in-our-own-backyard ek-ek. Laluna if through our efforts (and lobbying) magbigay ng incentives ang government sa mga foreigners interested to invest in komiks publishing in the country. As I’ve said many times, hindi maa-accomplish ang lahat nang ito ng isa o dalawang tao lang. Kailangan ng pagkakaisa ng mga nagmamahal sa komiks. If not through this the option is to continue collective dreaming and discussions while aspiring separately as hundred or less different komiks indie publishers each one hoping to make it as big as Rex at least within one’s lifetime.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 12th, 2008 10:11 am

Robby, you’re uncomfortable with me telling Atlas what to do? The same way you are telling ME what to do? We’re hypocrites. Both of us.

People can make false expectations of me as much as they want. I will be pissed and I will respond. Or ignore them as I see fit.

By the same token, If I make any false expectations of Atlas, then let THEM respond if they’re pissed. Or ignore ME as they see fit. Who appointed YOU their spokesman?

You should understand me. The self righteous impulse in me to question Atlas, is the same self righteous impulse in you to question me. The only difference is, I question for the sake of the comics industry. You question me because you simply want to prove me wrong.

I’ve let you have your opinion here in MY blog as much as you liked because you’re entitled to it. I’ve never moderated anything, you know that. But once I say I simply don’t agree with you, you simply can’t let it go. And why is that? Why do you feel the need to insist on your opinion? Why the seemingly relentless need to prove yourself right and me wrong?

Why do you feel the need to appoint yourself as the Gerry Alanguilan Correct Thinking police all the time? You think I’m wrong, but I can live with that. Have that opinion of me. I simply disagree. Why can’t YOU live with me disagreeing with you? It’s as if you always want to beat me senseless with your opinion stick.

You wanna dance? Fine. Let’s dance, man.

The truth of it is, we will always disagree.

Because you live according to completely different sensibilities and priorities from me. You’re here on my blog, at the PKMB many times for many years. I can only conclude that you like comics and you’re interested in comics. You even made a stab at drawing them. And yet you are not prepared to quit your job to work on comics full time. You’re not even prepared to create more comics in your free time. (You did that Neil Gaiman thing once before, but I think you only did that to try to prove a point.) I’m not sure you even want to pursue it further at all. I quit my day job to work on comics full time. There’s nothing wrong or right in our decisions, it’s just that we have different priorities.

What annoys me about you is that you see it fit, playing it safe in your day job, to tell ME what my business is. You see fit, with the paltry comics experience you have, to speak more authoritatively than me, or anyone else currently working in comics about how OUR business works. The business YOU are not in, and perhaps don’t even want to work in.

RISK is a huge part in the creation of comics. If you are unwilling to believe that or go along with that, you understand less about the business of comics than you would like to believe.

For instance, in this recent discussion, you insisted that FK was not proof of a mass market in comics. I accept your opinion. A lot of us who actually work in comics simply don’t agree. You think it’s not enough. Fine! But it’s enough for US.

And we were moving on based on that belief. But you can’t seem to take it, and you went on and on about numbers and figures trying to beat your opinion into our skulls when your opinion at the point no longer really mattered. We were already moving on. And you couldn’t seem to take it.

At that point, you were no longer someone with thoughts that you could help us, you were already someone tangling our rudder with seaweed.

You write all these long well thought out responses to me, trying to question and correct me, and that’s just fine. A lot of people do that. What I do is I consider everything, and proceed with my own decision. While everyone is OK with that, content that their opinion is heard and considered, you see it fit to continue trading bats with me.

As to why, I think you probably have a bloated impression of your own opinions. When the truth is, your opinion matters to me the same way as everyone else’s. I take it all in, and proceed as I see fit. I have a bloated idea of my own opinions because I back it up with more than a decade’s worth or experience and published work. Even you think my opinion is significant enough because you waste all this time trying to disprove and tear it down. I mean… why waste time on the opinions of a nobody?

There comes a time when opinions stop being helpful and just drag you down. They stop becoming fuel to the boat and become seaweed in the rudder. Your opinions to me, for the most part, are seaweeds in my rudder.

Most of your opinions don’t help me at all. In fact, I find them unproductive to the way I do things. I have a job to do and you’re just getting in my way. To engage further in this will only have detrimental results for me and my work.

The way you want this business run, it’s abhorrent to me. It disgusts me. I’d rather quit comics than have it run the way you think it should.

I will continue making statements in this blog that you will no doubt correct me on. Don’t think for even a moment that you can ever stop me. You can’t. I already have a good idea of your views to know exactly which words and phrases that will get your goat. I can already see in my mind the things you will possibly say. And I’m already disagreeing with you.

I don’t do this intentionally to bait you, but whatever I say in my blog is what I have to say. And I believe it HAS to be said.

Questioning Atlas on releasing a girly magazine instead of comics HAS to be done. As a Filipino deprived of komiks, I HAVE A RIGHT TO QUESTION IT.

Don’t ignore my blog if that’s what you want, and give your opinion and correct me all you want. But get this straight. If your opinions are helpful, I will respond and discuss it with you. But as soon as what you say no longer becomes helpful to me, I will NOT engage you in lengthy discussions that will accomplish nothing but lead us around in circles.

There are certain things about comics we will forever disagree on. After years of talking about this we both should know what those things are. Let’s not waste time arguing about them again. If you read something here you disagree with and get no response from me, that only means I have read what you said, and I’m disagreeing with you and I’m no longer wasting time on it.

For me to comment further and trade bats on and on like that only wastes both our time, and keeps us both from our jobs.
gilbert monsanto on April 12th, 2008 6:28 pm

I’d rather be poor, stupid, humble and courageous than a rich, self-righteous, ignorant and a coward.
auggie on April 12th, 2008 8:23 pm

Fermin,

Since uso rito ang OUTSOURCING, baka pwede rin i-outsource dito ang Comics publishing. Call Centers, Digital Animations, Medical Transcriptions, Medical Surgeries and other illness ( mas mura rito ang medical services kumpara riyan), ano sa palagay mo ?
Jose Mari Lee on April 13th, 2008 2:47 am

“I’d rather be poor, stupid, humble and courageous than a rich, self-righteous, ignorant and a coward.”

— WHOOOOOOAAAAAA!

Monsanto, this one doesn’t sound as if it came from someone who went down from the holy mountain! Whe-he-he.

Aren’t we all getting PERSONAL with this discussion? No wonder LENUXX was castigating all of us for going wayward from the original topic.
And he’s right, we’re ALL GUILTY for turning PERSONAL sometimes, even if we’re from the holy mountain, or be a FATHER CONFESSOR, and so on.

To match your last statement there, I will quote what I remember posted in our classroom at the international school in Makati:

VALUE YOUR HONOR AS YOU VALUE YOUR LIFE.
POVERTY WITH HONOR IS PREFERABLE THAN WEALTH WITH DISHONOR.

Then again, tell this to the people who live in the dump and squatters’ areas. People who exist in a capitalist society who do not have any capital to sustain a decent life.

The popularity of Neo-realism in comic books had faded when countries who iniated it eventually became prosperous. In the Philippines, however, as I mentioned to INGKONG KC, neo-realism is alive and kicking.

And maybe, our discussion with komiks should be more focus on this reality.

I’m trying my best to be least personal when I engage myself in debates. There are many aspects of our social millieu that had to be tackled rather then being personal to each other.
What’s more, when we begin to zoom in on personal matters, we all miss the point of the discussion. Kakaunti na lang tayo na nagmamahal sa komiks, so we might as well be solid rather than engage ourselves in more squabbling, hence hurting our comrades on comics, just like the thrust of AKLAS ISIP’s commentaries. His main purpose is not to uplift the komiks but his mission seems to actually divide the komiks enthusiasts. Let’s leave Aklas to his own ivory tower and let’s all go down to the river and enjoy a good swim.

- The Swim Champ a.k.a. Your Father Confessor :-D
Gio Paredes on April 13th, 2008 3:55 am

Just when I thought that the storm was over. :-(

Maybe you could put a “Cage Match” section on you blog boss Gerry. :-)

Seriously, other blogs do have “Cage Match” section.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 13th, 2008 7:23 am

JM… I understand where Gilbert is coming from. This discussion HAS to be personal, because for Gilbert and I, who do comics full time, this is our very life. This is not just a job. It’s our life. And to see our accomplishments belittled so savagely here by people who who have no hope of ever understanding our motivations and what we do is like stabbing us through the heart. I never addressed this before now and I will avoid trying to because it just might lead me to a place I don’t want to go, and end up saying and doing things I’ll most likely regret.

But I’m not blind to the many things that have been said here, about us and the things we do and I’m simply seething.

Gio, this is not simply about me and Robby. This is about all of us doing comics today and that includes you.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 13th, 2008 7:29 am

Auggie, to outsource comics publishing here might be a logistical nightmare. For one thing shipping will kill you. And there’s the matter with the queer way that the main distributor in the US (Diamond) works where shipping from the Philippines would be impractical.

I think we’re already outsourcing everything else BUT comics publishing. A lot of international comics are already being illustrated and colored right here, and I think that’s where our strength lies.
gilbert monsanto on April 13th, 2008 7:51 am

“Then again, tell this to the people who live in the dump and squatters’ areas. People who exist in a capitalist society who do not have any capital to sustain a decent life.”

JML: Been there, done that :)

Nabuhay ako noon sa tulong ng ilan sa aking mga kamaganak at kaibigan. Naniniwala ako na pag pinagsumikapan mo, may mararating ka. Kahit madilim ang daan at puno ng takot.
Jose Mari Lee on April 13th, 2008 8:40 am

JML: Been there, done that :)

Congratulations, then.
But guess what… looking at your smiling mug shot, you actually look like a million-dollar to me. And I mean that, seriously√:-D
kc cordero on April 13th, 2008 11:49 am

I LOVE THIS. I REALLY, REALLY LOVE THIS:

JM LEE: “Kakaunti na lang tayo na nagmamahal sa komiks, so we might as well be solid rather than engage ourselves in more squabbling, hence hurting our comrades on comics…”
Ferres on April 13th, 2008 12:19 pm

“Auggie, to outsource comics publishing here might be a logistical nightmare. For one thing shipping will kill you. And there’s the matter with the queer way that the main distributor in the US (Diamond) works where shipping from the Philippines would be impractical.”

Just not the ‘Printing’ part. You don’t need that hassle.
Robby Villabona on April 13th, 2008 6:01 pm

To this day, you still don’t know how to distinguish what’s personal and what’s not.

You’ve chosen to sell tomatoes. Then you bitch about why that old tomato shop that closed down is now selling onions. I told you to give them a break, because onions sell better than tomatoes, and it’s really none of your business if they want to sell onions. You take that as a personal attack? A stab at your heart? Belittling what you do? Can you spell “OA”?

You are upset over things you ascribe to me in your paranoid delusional mind. Talking to you about comics is like walking on eggshells. You treat things you don’t like to hear as an affront. You are still behaving like Eric of WASTED.

Gilbert:
I bet the double irony in your statement #107 is lost on you.
Robby Villabona on April 13th, 2008 6:03 pm

Gerry,

You don’t know anything about me. And that’s what gets you always into verbal tussles — arriving at unfounded conclusions about things you really don’t know. Thank you, Randy Valiente, for providing us real insights, not speculation laced with histrionics.

My ‘day job’, as you call it, is at home, working as a freelance illustrator. I work mostly on commercial storyboards and receive no monthly salary. I have no sick leaves, vacation leaves, nor health benefits. Just like you, if I don’t work, I don’t get paid. My day job is my night job and is my only job.

I’ve done my homework and compared it to drawing mainstream US comics. With the rates I charge, the efficiencies I’ve reached, and the volume of work I do, the hourly rates are effectively the same, if not better than what I can get working for the likes of Marvel and DC. I’ve chosen not to go into mainstream comics work because to me, it’s “no career for old men” (or at least men entering their 40’s who value their long-term health). I know a lot of Filipino veterans in the US know this, which is why they have left comics for around two decades now. I also prefer the more spontaneous and loose illustration style of commercial storyboards over the obsessive-compulsive, over-the-top, detailed drawings one has to do in mainstream comics just to remain competitive (unless you are Frank Miller, Tim Sale, Alex Toth, or Mike Mignola). My natural style is realistic, and I draw really fast — traits that are valued in commercial storyboarding. So given that comparison, I chose storyboarding. I must confess that I used to think that comics was my only salvation from my old day job, but changed my mind when I went into storyboards. I really don’t love comics as much as I love drawing. Nowadays I also get dragged into designs of furniture and capiz ornaments, which is fun just for variety.

I chose this because I get paid well to do what I enjoy. I get to work with nice people from the Philippines, the U.S., and Europe who very seldom tell me how I need to do what I do. The only downside is some of them take a long time to pay, but that’s managable. I am the envy of some of my six-figure-a-month-earning friends and colleagues who are constantly trying to figure out how to do “a Robby” — to find a career where you’re largely doing what you want, work at home, with no boss to report to, and get paid comfortably for it.

I took this plunge when I quit my P3 million/year (yes, P3,000,000/year) job five years ago, because I couldn’t stand the changes within the conglomerate I worked for and did not see a future there anymore. And this I did with 10 mouths to feed and and 7 kids to educate. One of them is now entering 3rd year college and hopefully she will help ease the burden somehow when she starts working, but the rest have a long way to go. The first 4 years were a struggle, with income less than or equaling expenses and my savings depleted. It was only early in the 5th year that I started putting aside savings again (which is how I got married last year).

I’ve politely turned down the small-press foreign comics jobs that you’ve referred to me (which I thanked you for) because they didn’t pay enough for me to support my dependents. Those comics would’ve been fun to do, but it’s not fun to watch kids starve and quit school.

A very nice komiks veteran from the US (you know who you are) offered to find me a job there if I wanted to, but I have not taken up his offer because living in the US would mean leaving behind the kids my wife and I are looking after. They would effectively have no authority figure to guide them as they grow up if I chose to move abroad. Maybe someday things will change, but not soon.

Someday I would like to make a few comics in my free time. But first, I have to work 7 days a week so I can buy my future free time. I barely have time for the people I love, uunahin ko pa ba gumawa ng komiks?

I still get calls from the I.T. industry about twice a year, asking if I’d be interested in this or that C.I.O. or VP position. I politely decline because there is no contest. I would not go back to it if it paid double what I made now (nobody’s offering double, so it makes the decision much easier). Triple, maybe, but nobody thinks I’m worth that much.

I’ve gone through a hell of a ride in my previous corporate life. I’ve experienced starting a business from scratch that grew to gross over 300 million pesos a year by the time I left. I’ve experienced jet-setting on foreign junkets, making and presenting multimillion dollar business plans, meeting with CEOs, making multi-million peso technology decisions, hiring people, firing people, deciding who gets raises and who does not. I’ve worked and learned a lot from great marketing, sales, finance, HR, and customer service executives. From corporate planning people, I’ve learned how to go about sizing a market that didn’t yet exist using information available from many sources. I’ve gone through the scary experience of reporting to a board of directors of a multi-billion peso company. In this world, when you ask them to put their millions into what you believe in, you better give a much better reason than “I can’t afford to think otherwise.” Before I left, I had been given the assignment of assuming concurrent leadership of a dysfunctional organization and turn it around from a demoralized, underperforming, and much-maligned group, to a proud, loved, functional, and award-winning department. It was a very valuable 7 years of my life, but I don’t look forward to doing again. I did all this before I turned 35. So I do know a little about business, even if it’s not about publishing. The core principles of business are the same whatever business that may be.

We can harp about courage and risk when we talk about these things. But all that is really incidental. The real reason we all chose what we do now is because it’s what we want to do among the opportunities we have, to support the priorities we have set for ourselves. Huwag niyo nang dagdagan ng drama ang pagpili ninyong gumawa ng komiks. Ginagawa ninyo iyan kasi diyan kayo nakakita ng oportunidad at diyan kayo masaya.

So now that you know a little about me, feel free to pontificate about risk, courage, and playing safe as you see fit.
gilbert monsanto on April 13th, 2008 8:32 pm

“We can harp about courage and risk when we talk about these things. But all that is really incidental. The real reason we all chose what we do now is because it’s what we want to do among the opportunities we have, to support the priorities we have set for ourselves. Huwag niyo nang dagdagan ng drama ang pagpili ninyong gumawa ng komiks. Ginagawa ninyo iyan kasi diyan kayo nakakita ng oportunidad at diyan kayo masaya.

So now that you know a little about me, feel free to pontificate about risk, courage, and playing safe as you see fit.”

Now, That is much much better. Nice to finally know you. Pero ang nakikita ko sa nasulat mo, maganda ang trabaho mo for so so so many years. So, kumapara sa akin. Mayaman ka man, pulubi ako. Pero 7 kids. Diyan ako makakarelate, 2 pa lang ang babies ko mahirap na talaga kapag needs na ang pinaguusapan.

Good for you, kung yan ang napili mong gawin para sa pamilya mo. Masarap talaga na nasa bahay ang work. Again, I can relate.

Pero never kita sinabihan na mali ang ginagawa mo. Pero ikaw, di man diretso, sinabihan mong stupid dahil desisyon ko na magpublish ng komiks ko. Malinaw naman siguro sa araw kung ano ang ginawa mo di ba?

Ang sinasabi ko lang Robby. Di ako OA. Dahil kung sabihan kita ng “stupidity” personal iyan pre. PERSONAL. Never ako nanirang puri sa kanino man, kung may ayaw ako, ako na lang o sinasabi ko na lang sa iilang mapagkakatiwalaan, dahil wala akong karapatan sa buhay ng ibang tao.

Pero, hanga ako sa dedikasyon mo upang itaguyod ang pamilya mo… Dun Saludo ako sa iyo.
Ferres on April 14th, 2008 12:03 am

Gilbert, why should it mean ‘Stupidity’?
He may mean crazy, unorthodox or foolhardy. You guys a reading too much into this.

Everybody;
Nothing in this thread was ‘personal’ until the word ‘personal’ came up. There was no malice nor intent of malice. Take a break and cool off, the summer heat is getting to everyone.

Cheers! :)
Fermin Salvador on April 14th, 2008 4:23 am

“Since uso rito ang OUTSOURCING, baka pwede rin i-outsource dito ang Comics publishing.”

auggie,

Ang problema sa outsourcing you have to do exactly the same products that US companies have been regularly producing and offering to the market. Like Nike shoes, Levi’s & other US clothing brands. Instead na sa US tinahi ay sa Vietnam or China and other countries using the original US-made textiles. Outsourcing is an option to save on cost hangga’t wala pang makina na maipapalit sa actual work by human hands. Apparently, this will not be a good way to foster Pinoy creativity although it may really provide jobs not necessarily to artists who are exceptionally talented and creative but to hundreds others that could be trained overnight (as we believe in the Pinoy’s potentials that only need harnessing). Tama rin na isa pang problema sa bansa natin ang poor capabilities pagdating sa printing. Dapat maging concern ito ng national government kasi dapat ituring itong isang “vital industry” na may malaking impact laluna sa education at pati na sa commerce.
Sa US nagkalat ang mga info pocket-sized books about countries: Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia (pati Myanmar, Laos, Sri Lanka humahataw) pero tungkol sa Pinas ang hirap makakita. Mismong nasa Pinas ka na ay may makikita kang paisa-isa pero published abroad pa rin at napakamahal. Kaya masisisi ba ang mga banyaga kung bakit may mga “misconceptions” sila sa ating kultura kung salat na salat ang mga libro na magtutuwid sana sa mga ito? Paano natin maipo-promote ang ating tourism at investment potentials? The national government should consider development of publishing/printing as a priority.

Kung hindi naman through outsourcing of giant corporations, ang isang posibilidad for foreign investment in local komiks publishing ay sa pamamagitan ng “small-time investors”. As most of you may be aware of, maraming individual or group of individuals from other countries that are interested to invest in some “small” to
“medium” businesses in the Philippines. You could see them all around: service-related companies, grocery stores, restaurants, resorts, small hotels. Usually, nasa $1 million dollar or less ang capital nila. What will it cost them to start an “independent” komiks company? We are talking here of komiks that will be originally conceptualized and intended for local/domestic consumption (not “outsourced” ones) This may appear more like a reverie but as the saying goes – bring up the idea and the money will be coming. Or, hopefully. And the one thing where HOPE will not be able to help is the amount of work and determinations that such an idea will entail in all settings. Advocacy, lobbying, monitoring, reiterating, and paperworks, paperworks, paperworks.
gilbert monsanto on April 14th, 2008 9:46 am

yeah, I guess cool off lang tayo konte, mag halo halo o kaya palamig :)
Myke Guisinga on April 14th, 2008 10:07 am

Guess…this should end here. Nothing more, nothing less to follow. We have our OWN beliefs and we have our OWN insight bout something. If once they never liked/appreciated what we say, then lets just move on and be happy. We say what we wanted to say. Then lets move on.

For whatever our reasons are, it is Our world and for US to enjoy. We chose a path and perspective on life differently. Either we are the envy of our collegues or just an artist who dearly loved comics so much. Lets give respect to those people.

NUFF OF ANSWERING BACK! We can’t put our brain within someone else’s head. That is why God created us differently.

I guess enough of this bikkering and If you guys want to join hands with Gerry with his fight, then join him/support him in resolving it on his own way. And if some thinks it’s very stupid on our intellectual standards and Gerry can’t understand and cope with it. Then let him be…for he too isn’t forcing anything to us, merely, saying his opinion and in a way… his hopes and dreams.

Please, lets do move on.
Gerry Alanguilan on April 14th, 2008 12:06 pm

Hey guys! Heated debates like this are nothing new in this blog so it isn’t like this is the first time it happened. You should have seen the incredible manga debates back in December 2003. I think that’s the first time these kinds of things happened here. Although the post that triggered it is still there, the discussions that came after are not because the comment provider back then was really crap and I had to let it go. And there were many debates that went on through the years.

I understand everybody’s need to move on. But we shouldn’t be afraid of debates like this because this is how things gets talked about. To be honest, I don’t enjoy it myself. I myself would just like everyone to get along and be friendly with each other. I don’t like confrontation. But the things I say I feel has to be said, whether I like to or not. I dread arguing with people. I don’t like it. But sometimes you really have to because there are certain things that need to be talked about. Ignoring these issues for the sake of camaraderie is in the end unproductive and wouldn’t help us at all.

I would like to believe that the manga debates of 2003 made people really think of their art and how they do it. Whether they continued to draw that way or found other ways, their decisions were informed by what was talked about here.

I think the same is true for everyone who read and participated here. Whether you agree with what I say or not, I like to believe that this discussion has forced you to think about your own personal views about this matter. And I think this is always a good thing.
Robby Villabona on April 15th, 2008 7:51 pm

Hi, Gilbert,

I’m sorry it appeared that way, but no, I never thought, nor even meant to say that it’s stupid for you to publish comics. When I compared guts and stupidity, I was thinking about the call for Atlas to have “guts” — that it would be stupid for them to go back to selling mass market komiks for the sake of posterity and what others’ expect of them, even if they themselves didn’t see a market for it. But I understand how one could’ve read it that way. And no, I don’t think you are OA as wel.

In fact, what I really think of your efforts can be seen in a post in the old PKMB. In a discussion there, people were talking about the guts of this and that publisher in relation to a discussion about the then upcoming komiks kongress. Ang sinabi ko, ang example ng tunay na guts was your (Gilbert Monsanto’s) publishing efforts. I think I also mentioned Gerry’s efforts, but my memory fails me. I think you can ask Gerry for access to that old board if you’re actually interested in looking it up.

Also here is what I consider to be the difference between a personal attack and one that’s not:

PERSONAL ATTACK: Joe is stupid.
NON-PERSONAL ATTACK: What Joe did was stupid.

The difference being, the 2nd is a commentary on a specific action taken by Joe, not him as a person. Yes, it still hurts to hear, but I don’t consider that to be a personal attack.

I don’t go out of my way to discourage people I have no stake in to follow their dreams. As such, take my comments about what I see as evidence of a weak market as a simple retort to the original claim of this blog entry, and to show why it’s perfectly reasonable why Atlas would be selling “onions” instead of “tomatoes”. The implications of my retort are simply ‘collateral damage’, not any intention on my part to dissuade people from doing what they believe in. If you’ve seen my old comments to Eklat Isip regarding his belief on what indies (or what he calls the “globalized” komikeros) should be doing, you’ll know this to be true.
gilbert monsanto on April 16th, 2008 2:00 pm

Robby: Sorry for misreading and Thanks for clearing that up.
johnbecaro on April 16th, 2008 7:51 pm

Robby,

You got to have good points.

What went wrong is you keep bragging on what you think is correct to your own WITHOUT checking that
you have just Downgraded some people to the point of BRINGING DOWN their IDEAS/Opinions CRUCIAL to creating solutions to the problems. You even FORGOT to apologize to others, pointing out we don’t know what is personal to objective.Trying to
explain to US AS IF we don’t understand the situation and YOU ARE MORE authorized, that is what we percieved. You see, I cannot judge you personally if you are just so inconsiderate coz this is just a cyber blah BUT think that there are COMRADES you have just hurt.Comrades that doesn’t need SUPER ARGUMENT BUT NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT.

TO BE HONEST, I’d like TO challenge you to create your own local Comics and tell us HOW exactly it must done according to your way and LEAD us to success NOT DELUSIONS.
Ed on April 17th, 2008 8:47 pm

Cookies and milk, anyone?

-ed
jose mari Lee on April 17th, 2008 11:26 pm

“Cookies and milk”

Ed, aren’t they both bad for one’s health?
How about Garden Salad and Bean Soup?
:-D
Robby Villabona on April 18th, 2008 2:07 am

John,

I apologize if anyone is hurt by what I say. But please, shoot down my ideas, not me. This is not SPARTA (!), so don’t kill the messenger. Sa lahat ng sinasabi ko dito, mainit man o hindi, they’re always about the ideas, not the people.

“TO BE HONEST, I’d like TO challenge you to create your own local Comics and tell us HOW exactly it must done according to your way and LEAD us to success NOT DELUSIONS.”

I’m the guy who said “If you build it they won’t come.” (Just refer to comment #35 to see exactly what I meant). You’re challenging the wrong guy. It’s like asking Michael Jackson for tips on dating older women.

JM,

Milk and cookies, please. I’m afraid Garden Salad and Bean Soup is bad for my mental health :)
Myke Guisinga on April 18th, 2008 9:10 am

“Cookies and milk”

“Garden Salad and Bean Soup”

I’d go for a bowl of Oatmeal and a glass of milk or hot choco, any time of the day.
eman paelmo on April 18th, 2008 10:09 am

Okay, so most of us are interested in rejuvenating if not reviving our KOMIKS. Speaking of which, whatever happened to SIKLAB? I was so sure then that Hannibal and the rest of the guys there will make it, pero I have been visiting their website and nothing has been updated since 2004?

Curious lang.

Whenever i mention our loval Komiks Heroes dito sa Paete sa mga bata like Jun Dayo, somehow I feel like SIKLAB should have filled the spot ATLAS and the other entities have long abandoned.

[hikbi!]
johnbecaro on April 19th, 2008 10:03 am

(I apologize if anyone is hurt by what I say. But please, shoot down my ideas, not me. This is not SPARTA (!), so don’t kill the messenger. Sa lahat ng sinasabi ko dito, mainit man o hindi, they’re always about the ideas, not the people.

“TO BE HONEST, I’d like TO challenge you to create your own local Comics and tell us HOW exactly it must done according to your way and LEAD us to success NOT DELUSIONS.”

I’m the guy who said “If you build it they won’t come.” (Just refer to comment #35 to see exactly what I meant). You’re challenging the wrong guy. It’s like asking Michael Jackson for tips on dating older women…”)

Thanks for clearing up Sir Robby.. I Know everyone would be happy to hear this words from you.:D

Sama ka nalang mag kape sa amin minsan pag may chance ka.:D

————————————————

eman paelmo ,

I guess nasa puso pa rin ng publisher ang SIKLAB.
Siklab was doing unnoticed “actions” to fund
the publishing. Nahinto kasi yun sa kasagsagan ng
mga political instability sa Gloria Gate Scandal.
Gio Paredes on April 20th, 2008 5:25 pm

Mag outing na lang tayo,swimming.
Ang init eh. Patak patak. :-D
Tapos sabay kain ng halo halo. :-D
Fenix on September 17th, 2008 1:03 am

Culture Crash faded. Mango Comics? I don’t see them anymore on the shelves except for their old stuff. No new output. Same thing goes for the other independent groups and companies out there. Most have folded. If we are growing, there should be new titles out there. But maybe I’m not looking hard enough. Thank goodness Nautilus is still around. They have found their female audience and I hope they stick to it.

There are some groups still going at it. They are milking the anime-manga crowd at the moment. But I’m pretty sure they will be next in line as well. Don’t shoot me, this is just my own opinion/sarcasm.

Maybe Pinoy komik companies will have another go publishing nationwide, but in order to do that, Atlas (or any other company) will have to downgrade themselves to jack up enough capital to make the product and advertising. And when I mean by “downgrade” is that they have to layoff a LOT of people…and I mean A LOT…and I don’t think they will resort to that kind of decision because they have workers which are under them for years.

Also, I think comics is more of a niche product now. The buyers nowadays are the educated, high-school and college kids. Too few in number. You only make comics for the sheer love of it because the target audience is that small, and situated ONLY in Manila, not anywhere else.

If you want the “nationwide” poor(which is mostly the population of this f-ked upped country) to buy comics, oh I wish they possess the education and the appreciation to buy stuff from Nautilus, Culture Crash and others…but hell no. These people save every centavo just to get out of this shit-hole. Have you seen the long lines down at the POEA? The “masa” concept is dead now. But probably… you can make a comic book about their local music rapper heroes, tap into the “jolog” subculture. Maybe, that will probably sell.
Fenix on September 17th, 2008 1:19 am

Oh, and I forgot. I agree to what Robby Villabona said from his previous posts defending Atlas’ decision. Now here’s a guy who has his feet down on the ground. No offense, but I think the rest of you guys need a reality check.

Then again, I don’t blame you guys. Being artists we are looking up high in the clouds. Probably too high. That’s our weakness. We’re not these uber-businessmen.

Dudes, this is the Philippines. Aside from life being cheap here, it’s a dog-eat-dog world too. You wanna know why the komiks industry is fucked up? Simple, hold a marketing research down at some squatter area.
Gerry Alanguilan on September 17th, 2008 6:58 am

Fenix, the world needs dreamers, the Philippines specially more so, now more than ever. If all everyone were concerned about was reality, we will always be in a dog eat dog world. That’s one of the purposes an artist can strive for, to be the ones who hope, and dream, and help people cope with too much reality.
Fenix on September 17th, 2008 7:01 am

I also forgot to tell you guys, ADVERTISING has been the lifeblood of the industry of komiks as well. If you observe the komiks of old has lots of pages which advertise certain products. I remember Latigo 50, which is a farm product was always advertised in one komik from way back. Komiks was also a vehicle used extensively to promote farm products back then. Apparently its not an ad vehicle anymore.

The reason… I think, of the Filipino komik’s demise is that the ad-men changed their tactics. There’s TV and billboards now…even trucks which serves as a moving poster. Ad vehicles alternative to comics was used so much during the late 80s and most of the 90s, that it forced the komiks industry to depend on readership sales instead. And without this extra revenue, they won’t pay for printing & manpower costs.

If they plan to revive the industry once again, I say they should prove that it’s a good way to put the ads there. Otherwise, there’s no fuel for the komik industry to keep it going.
Fenix on September 17th, 2008 7:31 am

Yeah, the world needs dreamers, but the world also need smarts too you know. This is probably why Atlas made that decision. And I’m telling you, it’s also a risky decision on their part. Obviously, they will receive flak from you guys who are working for comics. But for me, I think what they’ve done was just a simple business decision. As I have said, it’s a dog-eat-dog world here, and that’s exactly what they did… just to survive. I don’t have any qualms about it. Sure! Another men’s mag, why not? Maybe they made that marketing survey and found it to be feasible.

Either that, or Atlas lays off more people, people who…probably have served them way back for years, and has become a part of their “family”.

Just imagine being in their shoes: If YOU are the head of this once glorious publishing giant…now dying…and on the verge of selling their assets and laying off jobs…..what are YOU going to do?
Gerry Alanguilan on September 17th, 2008 8:10 am

I don’t believe I’ll ever be in their shoes.

Their decision to publish a porn mag is simply the end result of years and years of mismanagement and a lack of comprehension about how comics can be relevant in today’s society. Those things I would have never let happen in the first place.

If I was the head of Atlas, I would most likely have made decisions long ago that would have prevented them from resorting to publishing porn mags to just to survive. Like respecting creators, like not letting quality slip, like adapting comics to new audiences (you’re right, masa is no longer the way to go).

But right now, all the mistakes have already been made, and they are paying for the decisions they have made in the past. If they feel publishing a porn mag is the way for them to survive and for them to support their “family”, then I have no moral right to stop them from doing it.

I’m simply expressing disappointment and sadness that a once great comics publishing giant, who published some of our greatest comics, and ushered in some of our greatest artists, would now have to resort to publishing porn mags just to survive. I think it’s very sad. Sayang.
Gerry Alanguilan on September 17th, 2008 8:35 am

“Yeah, the world needs dreamers, but the world also need smarts too you know. This is probably why Atlas made that decision. And I’m telling you, it’s also a risky decision on their part.”

It is definitely a risk. Like any business decision is a risk. I wish they took the risk with comics, but since they took the risk with porn, it’s nevertheless still a risky decision.

But was it smart?

One always assumes that publishing and exhibiting porn is a good business decision. Is it really? And has it always played out successfully, specially in cases where formerly successful businesses were saved from bankruptcy by entering into porn?

Four cases here in San Pablo prove that it’s not always the case. Four formerly very successful movie houses, when faced with dwindling audiences, resorted to showing bold movies just to survive. They lost even more patrons, and in the end, they closed one by one. Now one is a NOVO grocery, one is an ukay ukay, one is a bank, and the last is converted into a Christian ministry.

Was it showing porn the solution to these establishments? It certainly wasn’t the case. Perhaps if they invested money in maintaining their premises, updating their equiptment, etc., they would have never had to resort to porn. But they did, and now they’re all closed.

Smart? I don’t think so.

I do wish Atlas continues to survive, and I certainly don’t wish them bankruptcy.

But if their entering into porn doesn’t work out (is Playhouse still being published?), then I really wouldn’t be surprised.
Fenix on September 17th, 2008 8:43 am

You are not in their shoes, so that means you don’t know what it’s like to be on their side of the fence. So you resort to more speechifying? Then again, hey, it’s your blog anyway.

Also you may say that (and I quote) “Those things I would have never let happen in the first place.”

Dude…wow…I’m gonna REMEMBER these words! Once you (or if you) become a giant like Atlas. Because after saying that, it invites people like me, and I guess types like Villabona too, to observe you like you’re under a microscope in years to come. :p

I’m also wondering, what makes you think they are doing a porn mag? Are they graphically showing the penis inserted into the vagina in any of these pages? I never bought a copy, so I don’t know. But perhaps you do, since you posted this article and all.

I’ve seen paintings of women in the nude by old masters. Putting them side to side with various photos of women taken in the nude….they don’t make any difference. It’s still art. If Playhouse is not showing a couple (or more people) doing the nasty and gloriously showing off their privates, and only shows…well…just nudes, then it’s art.

But that’s me, I don’t know about you and the rest out there.
Gerry Alanguilan on September 17th, 2008 9:01 am

Dude, you were the one who asked me what I would do if I were in their shoes. You asked, I answered. I don’t understand this need to roast me for my answer, and the intention to stalk me for the rest of my life for it. I’m sure you have plenty of other, better things to do.

I hope we won’t start a “Define Porn” on this topic because this discussion will never end.
Fenix on September 17th, 2008 9:02 am

Man, when I mean by smart, is that it’s the “practical” thing to do, in Atlas’ case. It doesn’t have to do with this morality BS. Hey I did porn once too. But I don’t view it as a taboo. I was exploring if it’s art or not.

But it is art…well…art of the obscene anyway.

Also, I don’t know what movie they are showing in that movie house you’re talking about. If it’s an hardcore x-rated film during the 70s, I won’t blame anyone in that community for not watching it. They might too chicken to see it and get flak from their community and their church (who I think mostly control everything what we say, do or decide in this damn country.)

To me it’s just a simple business decision what Atlas did. The company is at the time when it’s going to sink or swim. Whatever the outcome, that depends on their decision. Smart decision? Well, I don’t judge them on that. Like you said, business has risks and it’s a gamble.
Fenix on September 17th, 2008 9:22 am

Stalk you for the rest of your life? Man you got it all wrong, I’m not gay and I don’t have to do that. You are as loud enough and opinionated enough as it is.:P

And I’m looking for YOUR definition of porn. Not the general consensus. What is it? Simple nudity doesn’t mean it’s art?

Lastly, reality check man, no one can survive with just dreams and hopes. Without action there is no reaction. Atlas did what they think it’s best. Heck, even the Jim Henson Company are exploring adult entertainment, not with graphic human genitalia, but with puppets and mature dialogue…something like Avenue Q would do. So does that make Atlas any different?

Heh, yeah…probably I have better things to do, seeming that now I bruised your ego. :P
Gerry Alanguilan on September 17th, 2008 9:41 am

Loud, opinionated, and proud! :) As you are it seems. But that’s cool, man! But please, stop sticking out your lounge like that, it’s disgusting.

“Lastly, reality check man, no one can survive with just dreams and hopes.”

It’s possible, but it’s not for everybody. I can, and I have. But I won’t elaborate. You just might think I’m speechfying. :) I’ve got my head bitten off enough already, answering your questions.

Reality check: The world can’t survive without dreamers. If we weren’t here, we’d still be lighting our fires with stones. But really, there’s no reason to bicker over this. The world needs both dreamers and practical thinkers. They help each other and keep each other in check. Whaddaya say eh?

Oh, don’t concern yourself with my ego. It’s fine where it is.

I just don’t understand how you can interpret it that way. I was simply answering your question. It was a valid question, and I was answering it as honestly, and as decently as I can. And you bit my head off for it. Why did you have to do that?

And just to put a surprising, unexpected element into this discussion, did you read my post about me doing an adult comic book? That will go a long way in explaining what my definition of porn is. When I can’t put it in words, I put it in comics. Check out a copy of it. “Where Bold Stars Go To Die” out in November at the Komikon.

Before any misunderstandings occur, I did make quite a vocal opposition to the pending Anti-Obscenity Bill, filed by Sen. Manny Villar last July. I even wrote him an email, which I’m sure his minions quickly put in the recycle bin.
Fenix on September 18th, 2008 4:04 pm

Quote:

“Those things I would have never let happen in the first place.”

Prove me wrong. Why don’t you create a publishing company…and let’s see where that leads you. Buy an offset printer, hire some people, print only comics. Let’s see how you do in like…5 years.
Gerry Alanguilan on September 18th, 2008 5:06 pm

Now you’re just going off the deep end. If I were in Atlas’ shoes, I would already have a printer and a staff. Why are you changing the conditions of your original question after I had already answered?

Like I said, you asked for my opinion, and I gave it to you. Apparently, you didn’t like my opinion so now you’re asking me to build a plane just to prove that man can fly.

Are you going to ask me to build things just to prove and validate every opinion I make? Do you want me to start asking YOU to build things just to prove and validate your opinion?

Do you seriously want this discussion to go in this direction?

Why can’t you just accept that it’s the opinion that I have? You don’t HAVE to agree with me. Why do you want me to jump through all these hoops in an attempt to prove my opinion wrong? I have a right to my opinion as you have a right to yours.

If you don’t agree with me, then you don’t agree with me. I don’t care. I never said anyone should agree with me. I’m just voicing my opinion, as is my right. I don’t have anything to prove to YOU. As I’m sure you have nothing to prove to me.
Fenix on September 19th, 2008 11:59 am

Sure. Whatever. Sometimes kasi you make these opinions like that “I hate anime” article you made a long time ago. Then you retract everything you said from it. If I’m wrong then why I can’t find that original article anymore in your blog? You stick to what you say dude. Don’t go flip-flopping.

You’re saying Atlas did a shitty decision. That’s the nutshell of what you said. Then you go on with “if it would be me this ain’t gonna happen”. Man, you’ve been around for years! Most of what you did was self publish stuff for your own!

Atlas has people to feed. The reason is that you just can’t get that friggin fact in you head. It’s a publishing company, it can publish what it wants. No artist have a say in that or can control it. Move on!

Whatever you say, papasok lang sa isang tenga at lalabas lang sa kabila. Nothing you can do about it.
Gerry Alanguilan on September 19th, 2008 12:39 pm

“You stick to what you say dude. Don’t go flip-flopping.”

It’s called LEARNING. No one stays the same all the time. They grow and they change. And over time, even opinions change. That’s normal. I don’t sit here saying my opinion is infallible and correct for everybody. It’s simply what I think. Through interaction and discussion, my opinions evolve and develop over time.

However, I never said I hated anime, or I hated manga. I may have been hot around the collar in the old days, but the worst I said was drawing manga is a waste of our talents, and that the use of it is destroying Filipino culture. Of course, that’s not how I feel about it now. I grow with interaction and discussion. However, I do stick to my opinion that I can never consider manga as Filipino comics art.

And yes, I think Atlas’ decision was a shit decision. If you don’t agree with it, then fine. You seem to keep forgetting the context of this discussion. You asked me what I would do if I were in their shoes. And in their shoes, this and that is what I’m going to do. And because my answer seemed to offend you, you turn around and now want me to build a comics company from scratch just to prove to you my opinion is correct. Can you get a grip please?

How is my answer such a problem for you? Why do care so much what I think? Am I imposing it on you? Am I forcing you to agree with me? Am I forcing ATLAS and the world to agree with me? I’m not. Is my opinion going to change Atlas mind, the course of Philippine comics history, and the course of human history? Of course it won’t.

There’s no reason why it should affect you, and there’s no reason why you’re being so rude and nasty to me because of what I think. Because really, you act like I killed your cat or something. Is this something personal to you, or something? Because it feels like it is.

This kind of discussion with you is something I don’t learn anything from to be honest. All I get is animosity and contempt. I strongly prescribe a happy pill. Take it easy. All right?
Gerry Alanguilan on September 19th, 2008 12:57 pm

Thank goodness for the internet, there’s archive.org. In this link you can see my original article.

No “I hate anime!” there.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010126114200/http://alanguilan.com/sanpablo/art1.html

I can even quote: “I must say that I have NO problem with manga as an art style per se. In fact, I’m a fan of Katsuhiro Otomo, and of Goseki Kojima, artist of Lone Wolf and Cub, who is drawing in another manga style that I wish were more popular than the one I am talking about here. I think it’s a fantastic style. Very alive, very energetic.”

But of course, there’s no point in arguing with me about what I said in that link, because I said, my opinions have since evolved and developed through the years through interaction and discussion. My current views on this can be found in the archive of my current blog.

If you’re interested in discussion, about this issue and a lot of other things, please do cool off a bit, take a happy pill, and then perhaps we can talk again.
Fenix on September 19th, 2008 8:52 pm

From you crummy article:

“What kind of identity would you have as a Filipino if you draw like them?”

Sheesh. Get a grip. It’s just a style. Doesn’t mean shit if it’s drawn by a Filip, Mexican or American.

In fact, most Filipino artists got their influence from illustrators from the West. There was even one artist who said he sent a letter to the creator of Prince Valiant.

Proves my point.

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