32 Responses to “And He Just Keeps Going on Doesn’t He? (And I don’t mean me.)”

1. jason on July 28th, 2007 10:17 am

   Great project, but if it continues to be run in THAT manner, the “revival” will probably be short-lived and the sins of the past shall be repeated.

2. Ed on July 28th, 2007 12:12 pm

   Whaaaat?! P10 isang komiks na 32 pages? Magkano per-page ng artists?

   Hay…

   -ed

3. Gerry Alanguilan on July 28th, 2007 1:35 pm

   It’s true Ed. Back when Mango was still involved, the artists were getting P1000 per page of pencils and inks. With the new group, I heard that the rates have dropped by perhaps 50% or more. Rates for writers have dropped even more than that. And that is a shame for all creative people involved.

4. Ed on July 28th, 2007 2:19 pm

   Lokohan na ‘to. What kind of quality of artworks are they talking about anyway? Mataas daw ang kalidad eh.

   I wonder kung mamahalin ng mga artists ang trabaho nila sa mababang page rate? :(

   -ed

5. auggie on July 28th, 2007 4:47 pm

   Hmmm, Nag-kasulutan pala, well, what else is new ? itong smart operator na tinutukoy ninyo, ay talagang naghihintay ng di kanais-nais. Darating ang araw, makakatikim din siya ng “Karinyo ” ng mga komikeros, somewhere, sometime, somehow.

6. rizaldy manrique on July 28th, 2007 8:40 pm

   Here in Bikol, thanks to your info Gerry, we now know the real score.

7. Robby Villabona on July 28th, 2007 9:20 pm

   Sulutan is part of business. Those that can’t protect themselves against it just need to learn to do so, not sour-grape in public. It’s just bad form.

8. Gerry Alanguilan on July 28th, 2007 9:52 pm

   Ha! ha! Bad form? Since when have I cared? Truth be told Robby, this is exactly what I expected that you would say. Like always, you miss the point. But unlike before, I won’t even try to explain.

9. Gio Paredes on July 28th, 2007 9:53 pm

   May royalty ba ang artist sa project na iyan?
   Do they keep the original art?

10. Gerry Alanguilan on July 28th, 2007 9:59 pm

    Gio, to your questions there is only one answer. They should.

11. Gerry Alanguilan on July 28th, 2007 10:10 pm

    Auggy, that’s right, there’s nothing new about it. And that’s the tragedy isn’t it? But if people are simply going to shut up and take it every time, as some people suggest, nothing will change. We will get the industry that we deserve.

12. bluepen on July 28th, 2007 11:01 pm

    Hmmm… Maganda ang pag pursigi nila na i revive ang comics dito sa bansa natin. Oks lang ang P10.00 per comic basta ang bayad sa creator ay kaparehas sa rate ngayon ng isang pro artist.

    Example nalang yung sinabi ni Gerry 1000 per page dati ngayon narinig nya binaba pa ng 50% or sobra pa. Kumpara sa rate ng artist ngayon, parang kaawa ang artist. Pero kung gustong mag sakripisyo ng Artist sa project na ito. Posible na mabuo ang comics.

    Sana magtagumpay ng matagal ang plano nila.

    Kung sa side ng Artist siguro mas magandang mag Indie nalang magagawa mo pa gusto mo. Yun nga lang hindi mass production at distribution ng magagawa nya dahil capital ang problema.

    Kung wala namang capital talaga, edi tuloy parin sya mag service sa ibang bansa, malaki pa ang kita . Sa hirap ng buhay ngayon, parang kapit sa patalim ang kumagat sa ganyang offer, though instant trabaho na yan, kaysa naman sa wala.

    Pero meron paring pero… Wahhh hahahah sana, yung mga publisher pwedeng mag sponsor ng Indie para marinig at mabasa ng tao ang ibat ibang kwento ng ibat-ibang creator.

    Maganda yung ganun dibah nde nakaka sawa, at saka magkakaroon ng oportunity ang ibang creator at dadami ang mag kaka interest sa komiks dahil hindi lang sya ang pwedeng gumawa at ma publish ang work nya. Para bang open sa public ang mang yayari, I mean is open sa mga gustong gumawa ng komiks.

    Kung ganyan ang mangyayari, lalong dadami ang magkaka interest gumawa ng komiks. Kapag maraming nagkaroon ng interest dadami ang magbabasa at dadami ang mahihilig sa komiks, dun na papasok yung SUBMISSION.

    Anyway, opinion ko lang ito. bahala kau kung okay sa inyo, kung nde naman wag no na pansinin sinabi ko. Sige mga kabayan… paalam.

    Oi! Gerry, thank you sa info. saka kay Carlo P. nde ko malalaman to kung nde sya nag post sa journal nya.

    Mabuhay ang mga pinoy!

13. Robby Villabona on July 29th, 2007 12:50 am

    I’m not the only one who “missed the point”. Not one post about the entire thing even explains why the whole thing was “dirty” and “ugly”. You make a claim but don’t bother to explain why. Are we just supposed to take your word for it? From what other artists are writing about it (like Randy V and Ner P), they also seem to “miss” your “point”.

    I was referring to Mango as the sour-grapes — based on the blog entry from zionson complaining about “manners” (is he serious? manners?). They’re running a business. If potential partners see them as a sour-graping bunch, they compromise their ability to negotiate good business in the future. Businessmen don’t like dealing with sour-grapes, and good businessmen talk to other businessmen to research their potential partners.

    Ang as usual, you dismiss as “missing your point” an observation you can’t rationally discuss. As a matter of record, I don’t usually miss your point. In fact, I read your writings with eyes wide open and full attention. I’m just one of the very few who isn’t too chicken to tell you when I think you’re wrong, and who don’t react with a knee-jerk response to your public calls for sympathy.

    In fact, Randy Valiente’s writings have been a lot more informative. On his blog he says that the artists from the Caparas group are willing to work for less pay for the greater flexibility they have there. If the other side were so exploitative compared to Mango, why are there veteran artists wanting to work there? Why weren’t they attracted by the Mango rates and terms? As a comics professional interested in improving the lot of artists and writers, wouldn’t you be dying to hear why?

    Now if the other side priced their services higher and got the deal, then you’d suspect something “dirty” and “ugly”. But as it is, all I’ve read is that they offered a better deal, so they got the business. Saan ba sa business sinabing I should buy from the first person I talked to? Shouldn’t I buy services from the one with the best offer?

    The artists there don’t get paid as much as Mango offers, but decently enough based on what industry experts have told me. For the life of me, I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with that.

    What would be very interesting to hear is Sterling’s side of the story.

14. Cev Ruiz on July 29th, 2007 2:12 am

    skipping a few stones into the future, either the “komiks revival” succeeds or it doesn’t. if it succeeds then well and good. at the very least there’s now an “establishment” of comics to go up against which could only raise the bar for quality.

    if it doesn’t then well and good. just shows how fast karma comes around these days.

    at least ngayon, pagsinabi mong “indie” o “underground” comics, ito ung mga komiks na hindi sa kompanya ni carlo j.

15. Richard Ramos on July 29th, 2007 12:21 pm

    How sad. Once again, it’s the creatives that get shafted.

    I don’t see where this project will go, to be frank about it. Yes, it will revive the local industry, but if it’s just a “modern-day” version of the old system, then it will fall in the same way, and probably faster.

    While it’s true that business is business, questionable business practices always have a price in the long run.

16. auggie on July 29th, 2007 1:16 pm

    Sulutan is common in highly competitive businesses like Advertising. But usually, the frontliners there are not the creatives( artists, writers ), but the Account Executives who are well-versed in this kind of one -upmanship. It’s the reality of a dog-eat-dog business universe. It’s about time, the Creatives learn the harsh realities of earning a living, by maybe, employing also account executives, who are ready to rumble.

17. Ed on July 30th, 2007 12:23 am

    Di ko pa rin gets ang P10 na komiks…and with quality?!

    -ed

18. bluepen on July 30th, 2007 3:10 am

    Tanong lang pano nakalabas ang idea ng 10 pesos na sabi daw ang manggo ang nakaisip nito. Pero bago pa man lumabas ang ideang 10 pesos sa blogs ni Ka Randy noon, masasaabi kong totoong sa kanya nanggaling ang usapang 10 pesos na nagkaroon pa talaga ng diskusyon. Baka nga parehas sinusubaybayan ng magkabilang grupo ang blogs ni Ka Randy.

    Sa tingin ko nde sulutan ang nangyari, “NAUNAHAN LANG”, sa paliwanang ni Ka Randy sa kanyang blogs, mukhang mas okay ang side ni Caparas, kahit na mababa ang offer nito sa Atist, marami namang magkaka trabaho at sabi nga kahit libre pa para lang sa komiks.

    Ayos din yung kabila dahil malaki offer, kaya lang nde mo magawa gusto mo. hahahah Parang ulam! PArehas adobo ang niluluto nila kaya lang nde makuha ang tamang alat ng adobo.

    Dambuhala nalang sila! abangan nalang natin kung anong mangyayari!

19. Gerry Alanguilan on July 30th, 2007 7:40 am

    Re: 10 pesos. Ang sabi sa akin directly ng publisher mismo, na ang 10 pesos ay dinikta ng mga distributor. Sabi nila, hindi nila idi-distribute ang komiks pag ito ay lampas ng 10 pesos.

20. auggie on July 30th, 2007 9:01 am

    Actually, pwedeng kumita sa 10 pesos ang publisher thru sheer volume of printing copies para pabahain ang cheap komiks sa buong Pilipinas. Kung mi advertising pa ito, eh tubong -lugaw na. Yung sales sa Bangketa eh bonus na lang.

    To give a rough idea sa inyo kung papaano kikita sa sampung piso. Ilan ang buong population ng Pilipinas ? 88 million Filipino consumers , di ba ? hypothetically, kunyari, singilin mo linggo-linggo yung 88 milyon na iyan ng piso-piso lang, di ba may 88 milyong piso ka kada linggo na tumatanginting, kahit isang dosenang Porsche o Lamborghini eh kayang mong bilhin ? theoretical lang iyan, in practice , syempre iba na ang modifications ng realities. Ginagawa yan sa mga member ng EL Shaddai, sa Iglesia ni Kristo yata, 10% ng income nila. Kaya yumayaman ng husto si Brother Mike. Ang tanong: saan ba ang kwarta, sa bagong religion na itatatag o sa mga bagong Komiks ? the choice is yours.

21. Gerry Alanguilan on July 30th, 2007 9:55 am

    Pinaliwanag sa akin ng publisher kung papano kikita sa P10 na retail price. Dati medyo duda rin ako, pero ang ina-apply nilang principle ay natutunan nya sa Chinese. Mura ang bilihin, pero sheer volume talaga babawi.

    At sa 10 piso na komiks plus magandang distribution kung saan makikita talaga ng masa, di ako duda na kikita ito.

    Maganda ang business background ng tao ng publisher at sa pagkaka kilala ko sa kanya, mukhang buong buo ang bigay nya sa kahit anong ginagawa nya. Kaya di ako nag-aalinlangan na magtatagumpay ang project nila.

22. bluepen on July 30th, 2007 11:13 am

    Sang ayon ako dyan, kaya mas madaling yumaman ang mga chinese dahil mura sila magbenta na minsan hindi mo matangap na mas mababa ang benta nila kaysa tinda mo. Kung business strategy ng chinese ang gagamitin possible talagang mag tagumpay komiks, hindi sa presyo nagkakatalo kundi sa volume.

    Ayos yan, ganda ng plano. Buti ni sinabi mo ang secreto sa likod ng 10 pesos. Maski ako eh napapa iling sa 10 pesos. Dahil sigurado daming publisher ang susubok sa komiks.

    Kung may kapital lang ako, gagawin ko din yan hahahah… Uso na komiks eh!

23. Robby Villabona on July 30th, 2007 1:42 pm

    Palagay ko ang concern ni Ed ay yung quality, hindi yung kung magtatagumpay ba. Siguro ang mas magandang tanong, anong quality ba ng art ang pwede mong expect sa P1000 per page — na ok naman daw na bayad ayon sa iba kong narinig.

    Sa maliit na nakita ko sa mga pictures ng mga cover sa PKMB, parang yung dating komiks din ng 70-90′s yung art. Pero cover nga lang yon. At wika nga ni Melanie Marquez, “Do not judge my brother. He is not a book.”

24. auggie on July 30th, 2007 10:25 pm

    1,000 per page at the average page of 5 per week, that translates to 20,000 a month. Alin mas mataas, sa call center o heto ? for tyros, I think pwede na ito, pero dapat wala pang pamilyang sinusuport. As for quality, palagay ko hindi naman yung “padaskul-daskul style(kinahig ng manok).May semblance naman siguro ng pagkapulido.

25. mcoy on July 30th, 2007 10:56 pm

    another possible reason why going with caparas might have been the wiser business choice: name recall. having direk carlo identified with this project would certainly improve its chances of success with the target audience, compared to if they’d stuck with mango.

    caparas also enjoys all sorts of clout and influence in the media that mango would not have access to.

    marketing, politics, leaner bottom line… the more you think about it, the more obvious the choice looks.

    of course no one wouldn’t prefer higher rates for the creatives, but like the rolling stones said, you can’t always get what you want.

26. Gerry Alanguilan on July 31st, 2007 12:04 am

    Mcoy, business wise, I understand the publisher’s decision. But it’s more than just making a choice between Mango and Carlo J. Those two parties didn’t bid for this project at the same time where the publisher got to choose who to work with.

    Mango and the publisher already had a deal. Mango had already put in a lot of work and have already put the first issue together, and when they talked to me, the issue was supposedly already at the press. The publisher already decided to do the project with Mango. That other group came in late to the party, and came home with the cake, leaving none for those who did the baking in the first place.

    It may have been a wiser business choice to get someone else like Carlo J., but it’s a business decision that has burned a lot of bridges, and have disadvantaged a lot of the working people that’s actually going to do the job. Ultimately, my indignation at what happened is not for my sake personally. I can always make money elsewhere, and I’m perfectly capable of publishing my own stories or have other people publish my stories. It’s the other writers and artists who I feel bad for, who would have benefited far better from the Mango deal, and I feel bad for Mango, whose hard work had been so horribly undermined.

    I don’t know, but I think it’s a far better way to think and live beyond just “business” considerations. To do business in this way is just so ugly and so underhanded. It’s reality, sure, but why is everybody so enslaved by this perception of reality as if nothing anymore can be done? It’s as if everybody is so ready to be so fucked in the ass just because “it’s just the way it is.”

    Can a strong, vibrant,and progressive komiks industry can ever be born in a business environment where people screw each other? Where people get slapped down for questioning why that is, for daring to want things to be better?

    Regardless, as Zach Yonzon says elsehwere, and I say this in unison with him, that I hope this project will be a success. I don’t wish it ill will at all in any way. A lot of people I consider friends are doing work for them, and reduced rate or not, it’s still a job and it’s something I can’t ever begrudge them. We have lots of time to do our own comics in our own time.

27. Robby Villabona on July 31st, 2007 1:53 pm

    By “already having a deal”, does that mean they already had a written contract that Sterling breached? If there was a contract already then I’d agree this was dirty… and they should sue Sterling.

    If they didn’t have a contract, then I’m sorry to say that they were remiss to have hired people to do work already on a deal that’s really not a deal in the eyes of the law. These artists who already did work should be angry with Mango, not Sterling or Caparas.

    Business isn’t as ruthless as you think it is. There’s the protection of the law that people can avail of, if they took the time to protect themselves somehow via written contracts, non-disclosure agreements, and/or bonds/deposits (to minimize financial disruption in case of contractual breach). Negotiated (e.g. no formal bid) deals always have this danger if not properly managed. The best way to minimize victimization is to learn how not to be a victim, not to expect that in the thousands of years men have been doing business this way, change might come if we state our indignance over the whole thing.

28. bluepen on August 1st, 2007 4:36 pm

    May ni post na link si John B. at kung inyong mababasa parang may sulutan na nangyari, tulad sa pagkakasabi ni Auggy at Robby.

    Hahaha napapa hinto ako sa mga trabaho sa kaka subaybay sa 10 pesos komiks na yan hahahha ang gulo…

29. bluepen on August 1st, 2007 4:37 pm

    Upppp! nakalimutan ko link…

    http://comicspotting.blogspot.com/2007/07/its-tug-of-war.html

30. mcoy on August 2nd, 2007 12:57 am

    ‘why is everybody so enslaved by this perception of reality as if nothing anymore can be done? It’s as if everybody is so ready to be so fucked in the ass just because “it’s just the way it is.”’

    but something indeed can be done: you protect yourself from getting fucked in the ass, which apparently mango has failed to do.

    if it helps, you can try taking a long-term view: direk carlo shafts mango while trying to revive komiks industry–industry revives–creatives unionize and demand higher rates. could happen.

31. Gerry Alanguilan on August 2nd, 2007 7:25 am

    Screwing each other. The inevitability of it. The seeming apathetic acceptance of that’s how it’s always going to be. Refusing to even consider, want, or even hope that there is a better way. This is what’s starting to disappoint me even more. If people honored their word more, Mango shouldn’t even had to protect itself. Clearly, honor is something that’s meaningless in this industry. And that’s a shame.

32. Robby Villabona on August 3rd, 2007 1:00 am

    Hi, Gerry,

    It’s only apathy if you know you can do something about it but don’t care. It’s not apathy because we have chosen to do something else about it, other than what you think should be done.

    In the case of business, my experience has taught me that to complain about being screwed is about as effective as scratching your balls. It feels good but doesn’t really change much of anything for the effort you put into it. My experience has taught me the best way to deal with it is to learn the tools of the trade.

    You’re advocating that we do something so that all people become nice and trustworthy in business. If you have any workable idea of how to do that, I’m willing to hear it.